Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of budget airlines. If you’ve ever flown on a budget airline, you know there are extra fees for just about everything. In this episode Lizzy and Lissa cover what “cheap” flights can actually cost you.
Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of budget airlines. If you’ve ever flown on a budget airline, you know there are extra fees for just about everything. In this episode Lizzy and Lissa cover what “cheap” flights can actually cost you.
Main Topics
00:00 Introduction
01:21 Running The Numbers Segment
03:26 What is a Budget Airline?
08:00 The Hidden Costs of Budget Airlines
10:44 Perception vs Reality
15:49 Rookie Mistake
22:26 Comfort Over Convenience
23:56 Loyalty and Frequent Flyer Miles
30:13 Hidden Fees on Budget Airlines
32:03 Short-Haul Flights
37:28 20 Cents Segment
References for Statistics
https://www.captechu.edu/blog/impact-of-global-low-cost-airlines-on-the-aviation-industry
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/022916/economic-analysis-lowcost-airline-industry-luvdal.asp
Lissa: Okay, so last weekend my brother-in-law flew here to Los Angeles from Sacramento, so not too far, but it was for $30.
Lizzy: Damn.
Lissa: Roundtrip.
Lizzy: Score.
Lissa: Right?
Lizzy: Wow.
Lissa: Which is crazy because I had just visited them the week prior, but I paid the equivalent of a $500 flight.
Lizzy: Girl.
Lissa: I used Miles. I know, I know.
Lizzy: Girl.
Lissa: I know. But today we are talking about budget airlines.
Lizzy: Are they worth it? [inaudible 00:00:31] Let's talk about it.
Lissa: Welcome to Net Net with Lizzy and Lissa, where we analyze hidden costs and empower you to make your own damn decisions in life. Each episode covers a different facet of life, and at the end of each episode, we each give our takes on whether we think something is net positive or net negative.
Lizzy: I'm Lizzy a strategist and consultant with almost 20 years of experience in finance and investing.
Lissa: And I'm Lissa, a personal finance expert and an accredited financial counselor. We're best friends who talk about money...
Lizzy: And everything else.
Lissa: Are budget airlines worth it?
Lizzy: First up running the numbers on budget airlines.
Lissa: According to Capitol Technology University, the global low-cost airline market is projected to reach 440 billion by 2030. Damn, that's a huge industry.
Lizzy: According to Investopedia, the average price of a domestic round-trip ticket in the US fell from $647 in 1990, to $420 in 2019 when adjusted for inflation. And I would imagine has fallen even more since then, in the past five years.
Lissa: Yeah, so over a 30-year span, prices are dropping. The average is dropping-
Lizzy: Significantly.
Lissa: ... because of these budget airlines probably. Yep. So airlines also went from filling about 54% of seats in 1975 to using 85% of their seating capacity in 2019.
Lizzy: Interesting. So you think people are flying more or it's more affordable?
Lissa: Or they're messing with the prices to fill up those seats.
Lizzy: Gotcha.
Lissa: And there are a lot of people, we'll get into it, who like to fly last minute?
Lizzy: Yeah. Technology, it's not booked, so I'm going to put it real cheap.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Yeah. Got you. I got you. All right. Southwest, a major budget airline had a 16.9% share of the domestic US air travel market in the past 12 months. And that's just behind Delta 17.2% and American Airlines 17.5%. So just barely behind two major major carriers that are not budget airlines.
Lissa: Yeah. Well, we know there is more to life than numbers, so let's talk about it. budget airlines. Are budget airlines worth it?
Lizzy: I know you got a lot to say, Lissa.
Lissa: No, I have a lot to say, but look, this episode is not going to be about me because besides Southwest, which I'll get into later, I don't think there's any other budget airline I've flown on.
Lizzy: Ever?
Lissa: That I can think of unless... Well, let's define it.
Lizzy: Okay.
Lissa: What counts as budget airline?
Lizzy: Oh, that's a good question. I actually don't know the official definition. I know I was reading and I didn't read very carefully, that it had to do with deregulation that happened in the airline industry, which is how these began to emerge. I don't know exactly what that was and why because I didn't read it. But I think they tend to offer fewer features that are non-essential. And because of that maybe are operationally lighter and more efficient, and then because of that can offer lower prices. Or they're just not charging as much for their brand and it's just a strategic decision price wise. I'm not a 100% sure. But then I think that has also shifted the way tickets work in general where you're now getting basic fares and stuff like that. Which is, in my opinion, the Spirit Airlines effect of, to my knowledge in the US, they were the first to really do it that way and then that shifted the whole industry.
Lissa: Yeah. Well, interestingly, without having an actual legit definition of budget airline, when we're in the United States, what come to mind for me is Spirit and Frontier.
Lizzy: Frontier, JetBlue Southwest.
Lissa: And then now that you mentioned Southwest, I'm like, "Okay, that's right." When I was broker broke, that was my go-to airline to fly home. In California it's very easy to get flights on Southwest anywhere you need to go.
Lizzy: For sure. Yeah. Thinking about it now, there's definitely a brand difference when you think about Delta or American, in terms of a perceived experience. But at the same time, when I try to break that down, I don't know how much of that is real or it's perceived. And so that's an interesting thing with these budget airlines. So you haven't flown on any of them besides Southwest?
Lissa: Well, of the ones you've mentioned, yeah, I don't think I've flown on... Is JetBlue a budget airline?
Lizzy: It is, yeah.
Lissa: So I've not flown JetBlue or Spirit or Frontier. And then even in Europe I think I've-
Lizzy: Ryanair, Clickair.
Lissa: I've avoided them in some way.
Lizzy: Yeah, those were my first experiences with budget airlines. I lived abroad when I was 19 and the cheapest flight I have ever purchased in my life was nine euros.
Lissa: Nine euros, all in.
Lizzy: All in.
Lissa: That's with-
Lizzy: Nine euros, one way, not round trip. I think it was one way. It was like, "I want to go on a trip, I'm broke." I think it was my trip to Malta, I can't remember for sure.
Lissa: So from-
Lizzy: From Barcelona to Malta.
Lissa: Okay.
Lizzy: Yeah. But we had a couple of those. The very first month I was there I got really homesick and my friend was like, "Let's go somewhere this weekend," We're broke, right. And so it was the cheapest place to go was Bratislava. So we went to Slovakia.
Lissa: I was about to say, where is that?
Lizzy: Yeah, that's the capital of Slovakia. So we went there for the weekend and then we took a train to Vienna, which was really cool. But the entire trip strategy was like, what is the cheapest place we can go to on Friday?
Lissa: Do you remember the experience of the flight?
Lizzy: Yeah, absolutely. I will never forget it because, well, I flew these airlines many times and in Barcelona at the time, this has probably changed now, but many of them flew out of a different airport, not BCN, it was the Girona airport, which is very inconvenient to get to. And so it was an hour bus or train or whatever, to that airport. Smaller for sure. And then in general, the luggage situation is different in Europe, they're a lot stricter on your carry-on size. And I remember one of the flights, I don't think it was that very first one, I think it was with our friend Skyler when he came to visit me.
Lissa: Oh, wow.
Lizzy: The homie you wave from way back when. I was overweight. And so I didn't know what to do and so I just took out a-
Lissa: Wait, your luggage.
Lizzy: Sorry, my baggage. My luggage was overweight.
Lissa: I was like, "Liz, don't talk about yourself like that."
Lizzy: My luggage was overweight. And so I was like, "All right, I'm going to just put on a whole bunch of clothes right now." And that's what I did to avoid the baggage fees because it was a hundred euros or something. And that's the thing with a lot of these low cost carriers is the fare is really low, but the fees are really, really high. And to some extent they trick you into it or they exploit you. They're not super transparent about that. And so if you're not aware, you're going to end up paying more. So I had a friend, the very first time I ever heard of Spirit, they were flying Spirit from I think DC to Vegas. Didn't know anything about it and got to the airport, didn't realize that it didn't include, not even check bags, but a carry-on. It just had a personal item. And then the fee for a carry-on when you're at the airport is way, way higher than if you book it in advance. And so it ended up being several hundred dollars for their luggage, that they just didn't know.
Lissa: So that's no longer a budget flight.
Lizzy: Exactly.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Exactly. So that is a thing with some of them. I think Spirit in particular, and some of the European ones, where it's budget if you do it a certain way, but JetBlue's not like that, for example.
Lissa: Well, that's why I brought this travel bag. This I don't carry just like loosely, I use this little toiletry bag in my luggage. But how I picture in my head flying on a budget airline is if you really want that $20, $30 flight, that's all you can bring.
Lizzy: I think about that too. Who's the person that only brings a personal item and then it's maybe an overnight bag or business traveler?
Lissa: Well, my brother-in-law. He literally was in Los Angeles for less than 24 hours. He came for a festival. There was a NOFX concert festival that he went to by himself, so he just flew here. He stayed at our place so he didn't have to pay accommodations, but he came with a very small backpack and-
Lizzy: That was it.
Lissa: ... he needed a clear bag because it was a festival. That's all he came with.
Lizzy: That blows my mind. I got too much stuff.
Lissa: I know. And then the other thing I was thinking in travel is, I think I could probably swing a one-nighter or two night trip with very little. The only things that I would really need to bring are my contact lenses because I can't get that anywhere else, and my night guard that I sleep with. Other than that, I'm like, all right, I could fly with almost nothing, hang out for a day or two somewhere if I have a hotel, shower.
Lizzy: Yeah, I could do that too. I have a bag-
Lissa: Obviously clothes.
Lizzy: ... that I bring, it's actually over there that I bring as my personal item and I'm like, "I can fit a lot of stuff in there that I would need." My toiletry bag, some clothes, medication, that kind of stuff.
Lissa: But then that brings me to, but then at what point is that just so inconvenient to enjoy what you're actually traveling for.
Lizzy: So to me, there's an association with budget airlines of it is a negative experience. The seats are so much smaller, the legroom is so much worse. They don't have TV screens or whatever. And I actually think that varies. I have flown Spirit before, but not in a really long time.
Lissa: Yeah, I was going to say, so what's the last budget airline you've flown on?
Lizzy: JetBlue and recently within the last year. And I actually really loved JetBlue. One, they have unlimited snacks. You can get up and get as many snacks as you want from the back and they got all different kinds of snacks. So you know me, that's the way to my heart. And they actually have a lot of really convenient routes from smaller airports, like from Burbank, so I like JetBlue a lot. I haven't had any negative experience.
Lissa: Well, that's why in my head brand wise, I didn't associate them with budget airline even though I had heard that it is pretty affordable.
Lizzy: So I think some of them, there's bare bones where it's like, "You know what this is, do you want to come or not?" And then I think some it's just a strategic positioning for someone that maybe wants a different experience or it's just a pricing function. They're not incorporating so much of a profit margin because their long-term strategy is different or something like that, I guess.
Lissa: Well, that's the thing. I think because I've not flown budget airlines, definitely none in the last five years, 10 years. I don't really know what it's like except what I see on TikTok and Instagram when I see the worst, when people are fighting on these flights.
Lizzy: Yeah, for sure.
Lissa: I think I have a bad view of what it actually is.
Lizzy: I am not a Southwest person particularly because the same reason a lot of people love it, which is you choose your own seat when you board-
Lissa: When you get on, okay.
Lizzy: That's still a thing, so you check in and that gives you a slot and then it's first come first serve for seating. I don't like that. I want my assigned seat. And so I don't really enjoy that. I've flown it often because sometimes it's a good route or whatever.
Lissa: I used to have a Southwest credit card and that was my go-to airline. And because I flew so much, I don't even know what it's called anymore, they don't have a real rewards program, but they have the status thing where you're always in the A1 through 15. I always had that, so I always never had that issue. It was like, okay, I get to board first, one of the first anyway.
Lizzy: Regardless, yeah. And I just always forget so I don't check in the minute I need to check in, so I get a shitty spot and I'm in the middle and I'm like, "This is stupid. If I just use a different airline, I could get a window seat like I want." But a lot of people love Southwest. They have built a certain brand and experience that they're known for that is differentiated. And so a lot of people love it and swear by it, and only fly with them. And I think JetBlue is trying to do something similar. It's funny though you say that, it's something you said, when I have flown budget airlines recently, I've boarded and looked around where we are.
Lissa: Is there going to be some trouble on this flight?
Lizzy: Not even trouble, but just the clientele feels different. And some of that is, I don't think they have first class or business class. Not that I'm flying that regularly, but I don't know. There's just something to it. You get different people that are bargain hunting, myself included sometimes.
Lissa: But still then, so for your recent JetBlue experience and in the past you flew that nine euro flight to Slovakia, there was nothing inherently wrong with the flight.
Lizzy: I would say it's-
Lissa: Were the flight attendants more mean?
Lizzy: No, no, not at all. I think in my experience, and maybe others have had different experiences, there is a certain level of being less convenient, less comfortable, and those are things that are a little hard to quantify. I flew a lot of budget airlines in Europe, many. So it was just this feeling of, there's no flexibility. You're either in this very rigid box or you're off this damn flight. And they were small and whatever. I think Spirit, everyone says is like, "Oh, it's so cramped." I flew, the longest Spirit flight I took I think was to Chicago. I don't really remember it being particularly uncomfortable, but that also may be just the way I experienced flights. I don't watch in-flight entertainment really. I can sleep anywhere.
Lissa: Yeah. Well, so that brings me to a interesting story from my early days in my career. So story time.
Lizzy: Story time.
Speaker 3: Story time.
Lissa: There was a time when I was an assistant, and so I supported two executives. And as part of my job I had to book their travel, everything, their flights, their accommodations, their car service. And one of the first times, and this was in my early twenties when I had flown overseas once or twice, I didn't really know much about international landscape. So anyway, I had to book this multi-destination flight in Europe because there was an event, a conference and whatever, and we have these caps that we have to stick to when we book flights because we can't spend 20,000 dollars on a flight. There's a budget tied to it. So anyway, I booked this itinerary and one of my bosses, he was the type to just trust me and he wouldn't even look at the itinerary.
Day of, he has all his boarding passes, he's ready to go. But one of those connecting flights, and I could tell you exactly why I booked... I booked Ryanair for one of these shorter legs, and I know why I did that. I did that because he wanted to fly into a very specific airport to see family. On a work trip, so it was still covered. But the only airline that flew that route was the budget airline. So that's why I didn't even bother asking him. I did whatever. So anyway, he gets there, he gets to the airport, and mind you, this is an eight-hour time difference or whatever. And so I'm like, cool, my boss is traveling.
Lizzy: Yeah, I'm chilling.
Lissa: I don't got to worry about it, but no, he calls me and he's like, "Do not ever book this airline again." And I'm like, "Oh, what's wrong with it?" And then he was just, "Just don't." And then I had to ask around later on-
Lizzy: Damn.
Lissa: ... to just find out. Based on what you described, I don't think there was anything wrong that happened on it or to him. I just think the experience is just not as great. It's not as comfortable. And especially for someone who's an exec, who's used to flying with more space and-
Lizzy: Convenience.
Lissa: ... and better, I don't know, nicer planes, that was what it was. And so how would I know that? I was 23, 24 years old-
Lizzy: For sure.
Lissa: And now I know. And now even I associate those things that are probably not always accurate with what a budget airline is.
Lizzy: That's funny, girl.
Lissa: I was like, "Oh man, don't fire me."
Lizzy: Oh, I feel for you. I can imagine that thinking.
Lissa: And I love him to death. I still keep in contact with him. He wasn't being an asshole to me. It was just like a-
Lizzy: Lesson.
Lissa: ... "Hey, for future reference, do not do this again, please."
Lizzy: It's interesting because I think when I first started traveling, like I said, it was by any means necessary. Travel or don't travel. So whatever option-
Lissa: Traveling for fun?
Lizzy: ... I have. For fun. For fun, yeah. And that really started when I was in Europe. And so I was like, "I have limited income, but everything is so close, so how can I maximize this?" And that was just normalized there too. But even for years after that, I had this mindset and not just specific to travel of, it was a commodity, I viewed it as, it didn't make any sense to me to pay $200 more for the same underlying thing. I couldn't justify that in my head.
Lissa: Yeah, just to get me from point A to point B in two hours or whatever.
Lizzy: Yeah, exactly. And it's taken a long time to get out of that. It is hard though, because to some extent I can't quantify exactly what is different about the experience other than something like having a loyalty program and wanting to get miles on a specific airline. But yeah, it's tricky and I'm not opposed to it. Like I said, I've traveled JetBlue in the past year and maybe Southwest also. It's more about what is the most convenient time and all of that stuff. But I don't look at Spirit.
Lissa: But then I guess, are these videos that we see on TikTok of, I don't know, I can't even, there's so many. There's fights, there's people yelling on them, there's people... Is that just outliers because people post it and they're... Or is it more likely to happen on a budget airline flight?
Lizzy: It's interesting. It's funny to think about airlines back in the day, flying was a really formal experience. You would dress in your Sunday best and it was very respectable and dignified, and now everyone's in their sweatpants and whatever. And so I do think there is something psychologically to paying more for something and having a higher standard for yourself and others. Whereas, if something is cheap, you don't value it as much and maybe on some level don't behave the same way. Or it attracts different people-
Lissa: Self selecting.
Lizzy: ... but that's hard because I don't want to say that people-
Lissa: With less.
Lizzy: ... with poverty or with less money are less civilized. That's bullshit. That's not true.
Lissa: But it's more the environment like you said, and what you attribute to it.
Lizzy: Yeah, I could imagine. I haven't personally experienced that, but I can imagine that their employees are getting paid less or whatever, they just don't care as much, maybe.
Lissa: Maybe.
Lizzy: Or there are fewer people, they're not as invested in the service. That's not part of the culture. I'm not sure.
Lissa: So we said that there's an increase in seats being filled on flights. Do you think that every seat is filled on budget airline flights, more so than others? Because they're so cheap, they'll fill them up?
Lizzy: Oh, interesting. I'm trying to think from my own experiences. I feel like I don't know that I can think of a difference. You know I fly a lot. You fly a lot too.
Lissa: What's the chance that you could get a budget airline, $30 round trip flight and have the whole row to yourself?
Lizzy: I feel like almost every single time I travel, I have a seat open next to me. But part of that is because I book one of the last rows in the window seat. And I almost always, if I'm able book it when there's no one else booked in that seat. And so almost every flight I have someone.
Lissa: So you have extra space?
Lizzy: I have extra room.
Lissa: So you don't need to pay for your extra space.
Lizzy: Exactly. I do it on purpose. Because what is five minutes getting in or out matter to me? I'd rather just sit in the back and have room. So I don't know, it's hard for me to think about whether that's been different on a budget airline or not.
Lissa: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I wish I had more to say. Maybe before we did this episode, I should have flown one.
Lizzy: Well, I guess my question is, why don't you? What is your perception around budget airlines or why that is not a thing you consider?
Lissa: Yeah. Well, I will say that when I used to fly Southwest all the time, it was primarily based on cost. That's when I was making less in my career and it just felt the most convenient to get the routes I needed at least a hundred dollars or $200 less than flying Delta, United or American. So to me, that's when I used to use Southwest. Then there came a time where I was getting a lot of my flights expensed through my job. And not only that, but at my job they had these perks where you could immediately get silver status on one of these airlines.
Lizzy: Got it.
Lissa: And so I just chose a couple, created accounts and then slowly started booking those instead of Southwest.
Lizzy: Got it.
Lissa: Yeah. And then it was this natural progression to, then I decided, all right, I'm going to learn to have frequent flyer miles and figure out the reward system. And so I've, in the last three years or so, I've been completely with Delta and so I would say it's less my fear of rowdiness.
Lizzy: Yeah, experience is more-
Lissa: And it's not like a budget airline flight has a higher likelihood of crashing than a non. So it's not a fear or anything like that. But I think because I've partially associated higher cost with higher quality, which could be wrong. And because I just naturally progressed into flying upper class-
Lizzy: With a singular.
Lissa: ... with a singular airline. That's why I just never go back. If I am going to fly somewhere, I'll first and foremost look at my airline for flights.
Lizzy: Interesting.
Lissa: And then if I had to be somewhere, let's say, for a conference and there was no flights on Delta, my next would be American because I also have miles there. And then so I wouldn't even go down the list, I always find a flight that I need. It would take me having no other option, no other route to get on an airline that I don't usually fly.
Lizzy: So it's not a function of price? Is there a line?
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Is there a point, let's say something that you had expected to spend $300 on, looks like it's going to be 500 on Delta or American.
Lissa: I'll pay more.
Lizzy: Interesting, okay.
Lissa: Which is silly on the rewards front. Because if I'm optimizing my airlines so I can get frequent flyer miles and status and access to these things, then it's like I'm just paying it, it's baked into my price. But I will say that on the status side, if you reach certain status because you spent enough money with an airline or flown in enough flights with an airline, I feel like it's pretty much priceless. I get first class upgrades pretty often domestically, and then I get miles to fly... I could fly free if I wanted to to Europe, but because I like flying upper class, I have to accumulate way more miles. So yeah, I would say for me, but that was a life transition to get to this point of, I value my airline status, my preferred airline. It's familiar to me, it's comfortable to me because I do get upgrades and things like that. I do like the planes, I love the service and all those things to me are worth that extra a $100 or whatever.
Lizzy: For sure, yeah. I think my experience now is maybe somewhere in the middle, where if I'm booking a flight, I am going to New York in a few weeks. We're going to New York a few weeks.
Lissa: So I'll see you there.
Lizzy: Yeah, I'm going to book a flight. Primarily I'll prioritize American because for better or worse, that's where I've stuck in and I think I made the wrong call, but I'm like, anyway-
Lissa: You're already bought in.
Lizzy: I'm already bought in.
Lissa: They have a lot of partner airlines.
Lizzy: It's just so high to get status.
Lissa: Oh, right. It is tough.
Lizzy: I'm like, "What am I doing? Why did I do this?" I might switch it up. We'll talk.
Lissa: Well, quick side thing is, yeah, it's harder to get status on certain airlines, but I think that the perks you actually get are way better because on Delta, so many people get access to the lounges. It's just like these lounges are so crowded all the time.
Lizzy: Okay.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Fair point. We'll discuss this.
Lissa: Yeah. Okay.
Lizzy: Yeah, so I will look and prioritize American. And I have my sequence that I'll go through, but probably more than anything, it's a function of the time of the flights in terms of what is going to be most convenient and easy for me lifestyle wise. That's my number one factor. And if there's not a convenient timing on American or a preferred airline, that is a reasonable price to me. Within maybe a $100 or so, I would be inclined to do a different airline.
Lissa: So do you book directly with airlines on their websites?
Lizzy: I use Google Flights and then I go to an airline.
Lissa: So in the past I used to use... Is it Priceline?
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: And Kayak. I used to use all these where you can just see all the different airlines in one place, and I couldn't tell you when I just moved from that. Maybe when I started going on-
Lizzy: With a singular airline, because why would you?
Lissa: Yeah, because I feel like getting refunds on some of those services are harder and switching flights.
Lizzy: Yeah, I still book direct, but I use Google Flights to find the flight-
Lissa: To look at the prices. Okay, got it, got it, got it.
Lizzy: Yeah, I don't want to deal. Even using my booking travel through my credit card. God, it's inconvenient. I had to cancel a flight a year ago about this, and basically my credit is worthless. So annoying.
Lissa: So on Spirit, for people who book there. Do you think people end up there because that's where they go, they go to the Spirit Airlines website?
Lizzy: No.
Lissa: Or it shows up on Google Flights or something?
Lizzy: I think they're price shopping. I think unless they just have been a repeat customer and they know that they're going to want Spirit because they just tend to go for the cheapest one. I think they're price shopping. I think that's how Spirit gets a lot of people who aren't familiar with their airline and their policies, which is tricky. That said, I do think Southwest people go directly to Southwest. And in fact, most of those services didn't use to include Southwest flights, and so you had to book direct through them. Now Google Flights started picking up Southwest, but that's pretty recent. And I think JetBlue is trying to do that same thing, but I don't know that they're there yet. That's my perception.
Lissa: Interesting.
Lizzy: But I think coming back to the cost, there's a financial cost benefit. Potentially several hundred dollars in savings, depending on the route, but that's only if you're aware of everything that's included and diligent about your baggage and the timing of booking things.
Lissa: So what are all the fees that you could potentially get on a budget airline? And this is not all of them.
Lizzy: Yeah, it varies.
Lissa: It varies. So let's say a Spirit.
Lizzy: So there's a checked bag fee.
Lissa: And which a lot of airlines have.
Lizzy: Yeah. But there's also a carry-on fee, which is not typical.
Lissa: Got it. So you have a backpack and a-
Lizzy: You get a personal item. If you want to carry-on, you have to pay for a carry-on. And most people don't realize that because that's atypical and it's a sliding scale. So the earlier you book that, the cheaper it is, and if you book it at the airport, it's like 20 or $30 more.
Lissa: Is that specific to using overhead space or does that even count? If you put it under the seat.
Lizzy: That's what they consider your personal item.
Lissa: Oh, okay.
Lizzy: So it's for overhead space.
Lissa: If it can fit under the seat, that's a personal item.
Lizzy: Exactly.
Lissa: All right.
Lizzy: So carry-on fee, checked fee, which is pretty standard.
Lissa: Picking your seat ahead of time.
Lizzy: Picking your seat ahead of time. A lot of them say they just have no assigned seats, and so you get the seat that you get. So if you want to have an aisle or a window or whatever, you have to pay for that.
Lissa: Do they give you a beverage, like a water or a soda or a coffee?
Lizzy: I actually don't remember, I think so. But maybe not, and a lot of them in just other airlines in general have switched to... Maybe they have bare bones, just a beverage. They don't even have pretzels and then you pay for snacks and stuff. And then I think there's all manner of premium for early boarding and stuff like that. They might have extra legroom seats, but I'm not sure.
Lissa: They can't charge you to use the restroom, right?
Lizzy: No.
Lissa: I was about to say, at point-
Lizzy: That's OD. That's OD.
Lissa: Yeah, that'd be too much. Okay.
Lizzy: A lot of it though relates to the baggage. And I think that's the main one that's differentiated, is charging for a carry-on.
Lissa: Yeah, so to me, I think there's definitely a case to fly budget airlines, if you love to travel, especially the closer the destination. If you just want to go a state or two nearby because you want to have a weekend that's free and you want to hang out, and that means you only have to be on a flight for an hour to two hours-
Lizzy: I agree.
Lissa: ... then you can suck it up and if you have less space, less legroom, whatever. But the longer the flight, then the trade-offs become more costly.
Lizzy: For sure, yeah. And I actually think that's part of the strategy for a lot of budget airlines. Like I mentioned, JetBlue flies out of Burbank, which is a smaller local airport, which is really convenient for me where I live. And it's just a simple, easy airport, and easy to get in and out of, not a lot of traffic. A lot of lower cost airlines, I think they recognize that, that people are more willing to fly short routes through them, and so they will have really consistent flights between here in San Francisco or Vegas or stuff like that, that just make it really manageable, especially to smaller airports. So I think that is one of the benefits. And you're not inconveniencing yourself for that long.
Lissa: Yeah. Have you heard of these services, and I wish I knew what they were called, where you basically pay some subscription or pass whereby when flights become available, and this is including international too outside of the US or within the US, last minute they want to fill the seats.
Lizzy: It's like standby almost.
Lissa: Yeah, you're basically on standby. And if you have the kind of lifestyle where you can go on a whim, you can get on cheap flights that way. I actually don't know which airlines are part of that, but have you heard of that?
Lizzy: I'm not familiar with that, but I've had skepticism around stuff like that.
Lissa: Why?
Lizzy: I don't know. There's so many sites that are... The one that comes to mind is Scott's Cheap Fights, an email thing.
Lissa: I've never heard of this.
Lizzy: The cheapest flights every day.
Lissa: It's a newsletter?
Lizzy: It's a newsletter.
Lissa: Oh, okay.
Lizzy: Yeah, I used to get it. It's just scanning and finding the best deals. It might be like, I don't know, Kansas City to Fort Lauderdale.
Lissa: Do they get a cut or something?
Lizzy: But it's like $40 maybe. Maybe, probably some affiliate something. Yeah, I used to subscribe to that because it'd be like, "Oh, I could go somewhere for really cheap." And then I recognize, that's actually not how I want to approach planning a trip. It's more convenient and whatever. But there's a lot of sites like that, that are like, "Get the sneaky deal," And I just don't really trust it. That's my own skepticism.
Lissa: Yeah. Interesting.
Lizzy: But yeah, it doesn't mean it's not legit and more power to you if you have that lifestyle. It's dope.
Lissa: Okay, so cost is obviously... The actual financial costs, this is actually a deal here if you fly budget airlines, but-
Lizzy: Potentially, potentially, unless you're not aware.
Lissa: Unless you're not aware of all those extra fees. But what are other costs?
Lizzy: I just think experience, comfort. And that can mean a lot of different things. I think that depending on the flight and the comfort and the experience, it can create stress for you when traveling is already stressful. It can affect your sleep if you're really in a cramped seat. Yeah, I think that it can maybe limit your options potentially, your flight times. I think some budget airlines are more likely to have red-eyes, which is its own conversation. So fewer options, more inconvenience. But at the same time, if that gets you to where you want to go, is that better than not doing it at all, if that's what you can afford? And that's where I landed historically.
Lissa: I have a stupid question, and you might not know the answer. But are there some airlines that have more cancellations and delays than others? Or is that purely based on air traffic control and the airports?
Lizzy: No, it's definitely by airline and it depends the reason why. If it's a plane issue... Because that was happening recently, like with United- [inaudible 00:36:27]
Lissa: Oh, so how much they do maintenance, how good they're...
Lizzy: Yeah. What kind of planes they have. All of those Boeings that were on United, they were like, "Don't fly those." And then screws were loose or is there maintenance good or not?
Lissa: This is where I'm like-
Lizzy: Is there efficiency?
Lissa: "... is this not a federal regulation to make sure those screws are screwed tight?"
Lizzy: Or think about with hundreds of thousands of flights a day, five minutes of lag time because your people cleaning the plane are slow, or the pilot's late or whatever, that's a big delay.
Lissa: So it's operational.
Lizzy: It's operational.
Lissa: So it can be by airline.
Lizzy: And I think that's actually is a factor. I'm glad you brought that up because I think, I don't know if this is real, but it's definitely perceived at the very least that the operational efficiency and experience is worse on budget airlines, so they're less reliable. More likely to get pushed or have some wild shit happen or whatever. That's not necessarily safety related, it's just experience related.
Lissa: Yeah. All right.
Lizzy: Yeah, let's do it.
Lissa: 20 cents.
Lizzy: 20 cents.
Lissa: 20 cents is the segment of the show where both Lizzy and myself, Lissa, each get 60 seconds to give our 2 cents on today's topic, which is budget airlines. We will tell you whether we think it is a net positive or a net negative. Why is it 20 cents?
Lizzy: Because you give the opinion of two dimes.
Lissa: Two dimes, two dimes, two dimes.
Lizzy: That's us.
Lissa: All right, Lizzy, you are up first. You have 60 seconds on the clock. Are budget airlines worth it?
Lizzy: This is an interesting one because I'm torn on am I answering for me myself right now, or in general? And so I'll do both. In general, I think they're absolutely worth it, and in my experience has been I'd rather travel than not. And so if the only way I can travel is with a nine euro flight than hell yeah, I'm on there and I'm going to wear all my clothes at one time to make my luggage fit. I don't have to be in that place anymore, where I can pay a little bit more, but it's still something I'm mindful of and it's more about the other factors of the experience and the timing and whatever when I'm booking it. So I'm not closed off to budget airlines, some of them. So I guess I will say net positive.
Lissa: Oh, plus that's not where I thought that was going.
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: Okay. Net positive.
Lizzy: Yeah, it's hard for me to say. I booked wine in the past year and it wasn't a bad experience, so sure.
Lissa: Cool.
Lizzy: Yeah. All right. What about you, Lissa? This is kind of obvious, but-
Lissa: Pretty obvious. All right. Where I am at. It took me a long time. I'm in my late thirties now, and I will say that I'm a lot bougier than I used to be in my early thirties and in my twenties and younger. And I haven't forgotten where I come from, but now I can proudly spend money on things like comfort, convenience or whatever. So for me, the reason I've avoided budget airlines, it's not really so much the brand and I think the plane's going to crash or anything. I have the way that I like to do it and I'm able to, it's a privilege. So on that, because of that, I don't have to fly budget airlines, at least for the majority of the time. So net negative for me right now at this moment in time. Who knows if I'm ever broke later and I still need to travel, then I'm going to-
Lizzy: We'll find out.
Lissa: ... go on cheaper flights, but hopefully not.
Lizzy: I just got to say bougier now than you've ever been?
Lissa: What?
Lizzy: I think it was like a roller coaster. You had a peak and then you settled in a little bit.
Lissa: Okay.
Lizzy: I think you're less bougie than you have been at one point in time.
Lissa: But it's like the way that net worth goes up and down, up and down, but trends up.
Lizzy: But that slope is positive.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Slope is positive, but you're on a trough right now. Yeah, I got you.
Lissa: Yeah, but I'm a little bougie. But remember, this is what we think right now at this moment in time, Liz is net positive for budget airlines.
Lizzy: Who knew?
Lissa: And I'm net negative. But that doesn't mean you should base your opinions on what we think. Let us know. Do you think budget airlines are worth it?
Lizzy: Nobody can make that decision but you. Y'all hit us up. Let us know what you think. DM us on Instagram @netnetpodcast or email us at hi@netnetpodcast.com. And if you want to follow us individually, here's where you can find us.
Lissa: I'm @wealthforwomenofcolor on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram.
Lizzy: And I'm @live_ well_lizzy on Instagram and TikTok.
Lissa: All references, statistics and resources mentioned can be found in our show notes. This podcast is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, and should not be constituted as financial advice. Remember to always do your own research, consult a professional as needed, and feel empowered to make your own damn decisions.