Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of domestic partnerships. From legal protections to emotional considerations, they explore how domestic partnerships compare to marriage and why some couples choose this path instead. Joined by attorney Raymond Hekmat, the conversation covers benefits, limitations, and what you might not know could affect your rights. Whether you’re partnered, planning ahead, or just curious, this episode unpacks what it really means to commit outside the traditional framework.
Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of domestic partnerships. From legal protections to emotional considerations, they explore how domestic partnerships compare to marriage and why some couples choose this path instead. Joined by attorney Raymond Hekmat, the conversation covers benefits, limitations, and what you might not know could affect your rights. Whether you’re partnered, planning ahead, or just curious, this episode unpacks what it really means to commit outside the traditional framework.
►► Check out Raymond Hekmat on socials!
Main Topics
00:00 Introduction to Domestic Partnerships
01:36 Running The Numbers Segment
02:32 Benefits and Limitations
03:14 Legal Nuances
05:38 Cohabitation vs. Domestic Partnerships
09:02 Personal and Social Considerations
18:55 Understanding Domestic Partnerships
19:57 Legal Separation vs. Divorce
20:58 Perceptions of Domestic Partnerships
24:35 Commitment and Social Constructs
28:58 Common Law Marriage vs. Domestic Partnership
30:12 20 Cents Segment
References for Statistics
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2024/families-living-arrangements.html
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/11/06/the-landscape-of-marriage-and-cohabitation-in-the-u-s/
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/11/06/marriage-and-cohabitation-in-the-u-s/
https://www.kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2023-section-2-health-benefits-offer-rates/
Lizzy: A domestic partnership is a legal status recognized by certain cities, counties, states, or even employers. It can offer some of the benefits of marriage, but it doesn't come with the full federal rights and protections that married couples receive. The rules also vary depending on where you live.
Today we're joined by Attorney Raymond Hekmat to help us break it all down. Are domestic partnerships worth it?
Lissa: Let's talk about it.
Welcome to Net Net with Lizzy and Lissa, where we analyze hidden costs and empower you to make your own damn decisions in life. Each episode covers a different facet of life, and at the end of each episode, we each give our takes on whether we think something is net positive or net negative.
Lizzy: I'm Lizzy, a strategist and consultant with almost 20 years of experience in finance and investing.
Lissa: And I'm Lissa, a personal finance expert and a certified financial planner. We're best friends who talk about money...
Lizzy: And everything else.
Lissa: In today's episode, we are discussing domestic partnerships, which can be considered both a legal and financial decision. However, this episode is informational and educational in nature and should not be misconstrued as financial or legal advice. We share our experiences to help educate, but you should consult a professional for guidance as needed.
Are domestic partnerships worth it?
Lizzy: First up, running the numbers on domestic partnerships.
Lissa: To set the stage, marriage rates have declined over the decades. In 2022, married couple households made up just 47% of all U.S. households, down from 71% in 1970, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
Lizzy: Sheesh. And cohabitation has become more common. As of 2019, 59% of adults aged 18 to 24 had lived with a partner at some point, surpassing the 50% who had ever been married. Plus, 69% of Americans say cohabitation is acceptable, even if the couple doesn't plan to get married.
Lissa: That's a lot.
Lizzy: Yep.
Lissa: As we mentioned earlier, some states offer domestic partnerships as another option for couples who don't want to marry. As of 2024, seven states and the District of Columbia offer legal recognition. California, Maine, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington, Wisconsin, and Washington D.C.
Lizzy: Domestic partnerships don't come with the full federal rights of marriage, but one area where they can offer real benefits is employer health coverage. According to Kaiser Family Foundation, 45% of large U.S. firms offering health benefits cover same-sex domestic partners and 37% cover opposite-sex domestic partners compared to 99% who offer benefits to spouses.
Lissa: But we know there's more to life than numbers and statistics, so let's talk about it. Are domestic partnerships worth it?
Lizzy: All right. So right before we turned the camera on, we were getting a quick bit of education, and I feel like this episode could even be the misconceptions of domestic partnerships.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: So, Raymond, do you want to give us your point of view as an attorney on what this really is?
Raymond: Yeah. So I've been a family law attorney for about 15 years now, and I have experience in domestic partnerships when they arise on the dissolution side and both people going into domestic partnerships.
And so the idea is this, that domestic partnerships were first created mainly for same-sex couples to enter into some kind of a legal union to derive the benefits of marriage, but at a time when marriage was not allowed.
Lizzy: Sure.
Raymond: So the benefits of domestic partnerships are, as you said, financial reasons in regard to health, inheritance laws, hospital rights, and community property rights. So there are a lot of benefits that have happened. And since January of 2020, domestic partnership has opened for same-sex and opposite-sex couples, anyone can enter into domestic partnership.
The thing is that people may not understand with domestic partnerships though, is that, really, it's recognized on the state level, not the federal level, as you said. So one of the problems with it is that if you enter into a domestic partnership here in California where it is recognized, but you move to a state that does not recognize domestic partnership, then that state won't recognize your domestic partnership should you break up-
Lissa: You're just regular old couple.
Raymond: ... or if you intended to get those rights from the domestic partnership, the other state may not recognize those rights.
Also, at the end of the day, it is very similar to getting married in almost every way in that the community property laws of California apply to domestic partnerships as well. So those shared finances and the laws of community property as if you're getting married apply to domestic partnerships as well. And so some people think, "Well, no, I want to keep my money separate. We don't really want to sign up for all the laws of marriage." You are anyway.
Lissa: So interesting because I didn't know too much about the background of domestic partnerships. I knew it had to do with same-sex couples to a degree, but I didn't realize that it wasn't even a thing years ago. But to me, I get confused between, I guess, cohabitation and cohabitation agreements, domestic partnerships, and marriage. There's so many nuances, right?
Raymond: Sure.
Lissa: Imagine we're beginners, we know nothing. How would you explain the difference?
Raymond: So first, on the cohabitation side, so we don't have common law marriage in California. So there are no inherent rights that are created just by living together. So when two people live together without domestic partnership or marriage, there are no laws that govern that relationship. What's mine is mine. What's yours is yours. That is pretty much it. Unless we do things jointly, according to the law, as if we're complete strangers entering into a contract.
That being said, there are certain laws that create rights in certain circumstances in cohabitation. So there's this landmark case called Marvin v. Marvin, and from that case, California law now states that if there are implied or expressed contracts between two cohabitating people, those contracts can be enforced.
So for example, an express contract is something obviously in writing, very, very clear. But in addition to that, if I am living with someone and I tell my partner that I'm dating at that time living with me, saying, "Look, what's mine is yours. My money is your money. My house is your house. You can quit your job. I'll take care of you forever. Don't worry about it. I'll take care of you." And in reliance of my promise, my partner quits their job. We have an implied contract now. So because of that implied contract, if we break up, my partner can bring a civil claim against me for palimony rights.
Lissa: Palimony.
Lizzy: Palimony.
Raymond: So palimony rights are really a form of maybe spousal support, property division, and there could be certain remedies based on the promises that I've made to my partner during that time.
Lissa: Interesting.
Lizzy: Wow.
Raymond: So because of those promises that may or may not be made during cohabitation, people enter into a cohabitation agreement. What the agreement basically says is that we're waiving our rights to any of these Marvin laws and rights, and that we have an understanding that no matter what, there is no implied contract between us, no one is making any promises for each other. We are just living together. We love each other and we just want to live together, but what's yours is yours, what's mine is mine. That is it.
Obviously, there are some people that can make it a little more complicated, like, "Fine, if we break up, I'll pay you this or this and that," just to live together, or whatever seems right for their relationship.
Lissa: So the agreement puts a boundary between.
Raymond: Absolutely.
Lissa: Oh, I didn't know that.
Lizzy: Right? I was thinking it was the opposite.
Lissa: I didn't know that about cohabitation.
Lizzy: I did not either.
Raymond: Yeah. It basically creates that boundary to say that in the event we break up, nobody can say, "Hey, you promised me XYZ."
Lizzy: Right.
Lissa: Interesting.
Raymond: Right? So that's what the purpose of a cohabitation agreement is. Then you go domestic partnership, which again, is exactly the same as a marriage, except it's not recognized on the federal level. And really, the only reason for a domestic partnership these days is for anyone for social or personal or cultural reasons, they don't want to be husband and wife-
Lissa: And wife.
Raymond: ... or husband and husband, wife and wife, whatever it may be. They don't want to be labeled as a married couple under the eyes of the law, but all other laws apply.
Lissa: Still want benefits of-
Raymond: They want the benefits of marriage-
Lissa: ... being-
Raymond: ... but they just don't want to be called married. That's really the only difference here, and it applies to breaking up. Getting married and breaking up. So if you're getting married or entering a domestic partnership and you don't like the community property laws of your state, you have to get a prenup. Both situations, you need to get a prenup.
If you break up, it's the same divorce process. It's exactly the division of assets, spousal support, possibly child support, if you have kids together. It is literally the exact same process of getting divorced as if you were married. It doesn't make divorce any simpler. Obviously, there are some cases that you can do a summary dissolution that apply both to marriage and divorce, married less than five years, limited assets, no kids, but all of the same rules apply to marriage and domestic partnership.
Lizzy: That's so interesting.
Lissa: Dang. That's news to me because just hearing the word domestic partnerships, it feels like this lesser, lower commitment version than marriage, and that if you break up, "Oh, cool. We could just break up the domestic partnership." But it's-
Lizzy: Totally. Yeah. I think I had two perceptions. One, certainly was familiar with it from same-sex marriage before for in California example, same-sex marriage was legal as an actual marriage. But I think the other side of it is I assumed for people who have objections to the legal and contract aspects of marriage, which I think is probably one of the more common objections for people who don't want marriage, that it was this half step. And in reality, it's not at all. It's for the opposite. People who don't want the social part of marriage.
Raymond: Absolutely. It's just about the label. That is the-
Lizzy: Yeah, it's so interesting.
Raymond: ... really the bottom line difference is just the label of marriage.
Lissa: Well, that's starting to make more sense to me now why it's only a thing in a small number of states because it just sounds like-
Lizzy: A little bit redundant.
Lissa: ... duplicative or more admin for the state.
Lizzy: Right.
Raymond: Right. And look, I mean, there are certain federal benefits of getting married, and there's certain federal restrictions of getting married, and people may not want to sign up for that. But on a state level, you can still file joint tax returns and you get those state benefits and the health insurance benefits and the inheritance benefits and all of the other benefits that come out of getting married.
Lizzy: Will you highlight a few of those federal benefits that are different? So filing jointly on your federal tax return.
Raymond: I mean, that's really the big one is being able to file a joint tax return with IRS and getting any kind of federal deductions that may apply to a married couple. That's really the biggest federal benefit on that.
Lissa: Yeah, there are other smaller ones on the finance side of no Social Security for your spouse. Because there's a lot of spousal rules when it comes to Social Security and being able-
Lizzy: Which that actually can be a really big one.
Lissa: It can be a big one. It's-
Lizzy: Especially if you're a homemaker throughout your life, your partner supports the family, and-
Lissa: Yeah. Hit age 62 and you won't have the same kind of benefits that you would if you were married to that person. There's other things like veterans rights too, like federal related things. So if your partner served, do you get a military ID? So you have access to things like-
Lizzy: Interesting.
Lissa: And health benefits through-
Raymond: The federal government.
Lissa: ... military, federal government programs. Yeah.
Lizzy: Can you imagine a case where... I don't mean case literally, but a situation where someone would want those levels of protection or to have those federal things excluded and for that reason would enter a domestic partnership? Or is it really not impactful enough to be meaningful?
Raymond: Yeah, the people that I have met and the clients that I've had that have had domestic partnerships for the most part have been same sex couples that entered a domestic partnership at a time that they weren't allowed to get married. And the thing is that a lot of them actually enter into that domestic partnership not knowing that they're signing up for community property laws, and then they come to me and say, "Hey, we've decided to now get married too, and I want a prenup." But the fact is we can't do a prenup. We have to do a postnup. And so-
Lizzy: Interesting.
Raymond: ... they don't realize that and that they've basically been building community property for the past-
Lizzy: All this time.
Raymond: ... 15 years, 20 years, and now they want to get married. We kind of have to undo the past 15 years, and they didn't realize that.
Lizzy: Interesting.
Lissa: Oh, wow.
Raymond: So that's been a bulk of them. I think there are a few people that I have met and clients that I've had that didn't just socially-
Lizzy: Sure.
Raymond: ... didn't want to be married or have a wife or be called a husband. The social obligations that come with that label. But for all intents and purposes, a lot of people, which I don't understand, but they enter into domestic partnership and they introduce their partner as their husband and wife anyway.
Lizzy: Interesting.
Lissa: See, that part I didn't know.
Raymond: So there are certain things that... I mean, again, it's a very, very personal thing and it really depends on what is important to you or not important to you or what your culture says about marriage. Or maybe you've been married once or twice before and you don't want to be married a third time-
Lizzy: Sure.
Lissa: Oh, that's a... Okay.
Raymond: ... so that somebody... But you still want those benefits at the extent-
Lizzy: Yeah, you want a-
Raymond: ... that you want it. And so you just do that and nobody really knows that you've done it, but it's more of your own personal decision with your partner.
Lizzy: Right. The other one I can think of, and this isn't my personal experience, so may not speak to it accurately, but for a lot of religions, marriage is like a spiritual union. And again, maybe you've had that once and it's in your culture or your religion, it's not right to do it a second time or whatever that may be. So you still want the certain societal benefits without that spiritual aspect to it.
Raymond: And there are financial considerations of having a wedding. Some people, they may not be able to afford to have a wedding, and going and eloping at the courthouse may not be in their cards for them, and they don't feel comfortable doing that. So they decide to just sign some paperwork and just become domestic partners to kind of do that middle ground. And that's what I think a lot of people think. But yeah.
Lissa: Yeah, that's my perception too. I think you had posted a video on TikTok about domestic partnerships, and I read through the comments, and I think the vibe I get at least from the common public is that it's a social thing. It's like marriage is this institution that I do not agree with, but I love my partner. This is my partner for life, so I want to be domestic partners. And it's like it's just a label.
Raymond: It's just a label thing.
Lissa: You could secretly get married and not tell anyone.
Lizzy: Right. I don't know. It makes me wonder are there any examples, and very possible, of just friends. We're friends and want to have the protection of being that sole person in each other's life.
Lissa: Oh yeah. Get some health insurance [inaudible 00:16:42].
Lizzy: Yeah, health insurance or pool ourselves financially, but-
Raymond: I'm sure that occurs. I'm sure that occurs.
Lizzy: Right.
Lissa: [inaudible 00:16:50].
Lizzy: [inaudible 00:16:51] marriage because there's no romantic dynamic here.
Lissa: No romantic.
Raymond: You bring that up and it's funny because even on the marriage side, you have people deciding to do that for immigration purposes.
I mean, I didn't handle this case, but I had a friend, a colleague who actually there was this widow who had a lifetime housekeeper help her in their home for the past 20 years, was illegal, and her husband passed away-
Lizzy: And that's her companion.
Raymond: ... and that's her companion and she was afraid that she would get deported, so they decided to enter into a same-sex marriage and go for the Green Card, and there were protections that were provided, right?
Lizzy: Sure.
Raymond: So that happens sometimes with friends.
Lizzy: Interesting.
Raymond: And people try to find these loopholes to achieve whatever their goals might be.
Lizzy: Which just says a lot about how our society defines companionship and the meaning of that. And that would be another federal benefit would be the immigration-
Raymond: On the marriage side-
Lizzy: ... on the marriage side.
Raymond: ... but not necessarily on the-
Lizzy: On the domestic side.
Raymond: ... domestic partnership side.
Lizzy: Okay. Interesting.
Lissa: So it sounds like... I mean, maybe this is going to be an easy episode at the end. It's sounding like to me there's no point of this for the most part. It's really just a social thing and it's like a perception thing.
Raymond: Yeah. The point is really, again, it's just really personal, and it really depends on how you grew up and what it means to you and your partner and whether those labels meet anything or, again, you don't want to be in that construct of marriage, but it depends on what you mean by that construct. Is it the laws that apply to you or is it something else? Because if it's just the laws, they're applying to you anyway.
Lissa: Right.
Lizzy: Right. I guess I would also ask, and maybe you came across this Liss, or maybe you know, of those states that do recognize a domestic partnership, do any of them not allow same-sex marriage? Because in that case, there's certainly still a benefit for same-sex couples that want this type of arrangement.
Lissa: Right. For that purpose I didn't the cross-reference the states. So I-
Lizzy: Right. Yeah. I'm not sure, so.
Lissa: Yeah, I'm not sure either, but I would imagine... That, to me, makes sense. But for other cases where it's just people who don't want to get married, to me, now it's becoming more clear that it's not like a sub-step or a middle step to getting married.
Lizzy: From a legal and financial standpoint.
Lissa: From a legal and financial standpoint. The other thing that, this might be silly, is when I would see that term domestic partners before, I never thought of it as a legal term. I thought it was just like, oh, if you're cohabitating with your partner, you're domestic partners because you're in the same home, you're domesticated, and you're with your partner. Is that a silly thing of me to think?
Lizzy: No.
Raymond: No. I mean, I think the words, domestic partnership, they are a level down from married, and people will just have that idea of, "Oh, well, we're just partners in this and this and..." It's kind of the same thing on the divorce side of things where there's legal separation and divorce, and people think that going through that process is easier or that, "I don't want to get divorced, but let's get legally separated." And there are these different ways of going about these relationships around the law, but it's really the same thing. When you get legally separated or divorced, it is the exact same process.
Lizzy: Oh, I didn't know that.
Raymond: The only difference is that if you get divorced, you become single. If you get legally separated, you're still married under the eyes of the law, you're just divided your assets and that's it.
Lizzy: I didn't know that.
Lissa: And you still have those things like hospital rights and things like that?
Raymond: Right. I mean, you're still married.
Lissa: Because you're still married.
Raymond: So certain people that want to keep those health insurance rights or inheritance rights or things like that, you still enter into a legal separation and you're still technically married on the federal side.
Lizzy: I could see-
Raymond: So legal separation and domestic partnership kind of go hand-in-hand in those ways where people have a certain perception of what it means, but they're the exact same step as one step [inaudible 00:21:11].
Lizzy: Right. Although I could see a scenario, and I can actually think of someone that I know in real life where they had a marriage, it ran its course from a romantic standpoint, but they were life partners, had family, had assets, and I can imagine a world where those things still practically make sense for both people, but they want some recognition that romantically, they're no longer linked and "free" to be with other people and to pursue their own interests.
Raymond: Yeah. They just can never get married to somebody else [inaudible 00:21:45].
Lizzy: Exactly. Right. That's a unique scenario-
Lissa: Legally.
Lizzy: ... where I could see where that would happen of like, "Yeah, but I want your benefits."
Raymond: I mean, is there a non-legal marriage?
Lissa: Well, spiritually, some people-
Lizzy: Spiritually.
Lissa: ... who never get married will just call that, "That's my husband," "That's my wife." It has nothing behind it. There's no benefits or whatsoever, but it's just what they call each other publicly.
Lizzy: Well, that made me think your take on domestic partnerships. In my last relationship, there was this weird middle ground. If you're cohabitating with someone, we had assets together, for all intents and purposes, functioned as husband and wife, but we're not married, and boyfriend felt so trivial, like seventh grade, so I would say my partner.
Lissa: Partner. Mm-hmm.
Lizzy: Yeah.
Raymond: Sure.
Lizzy: And I think a lot of people have that same connotation with domestic partnership.
Lissa: Yeah. Yeah. I guess in a sense it's a level up.
Lizzy: Yeah. It's a legitimacy.
Lissa: Well, philosophically now, it's making me think the romantic part of all of these, the romantic part of marriage, domestic partnership, a cohabitation situation where there's romance, is romance part of the law anywhere or can you do all of these where there's no romance?
Raymond: You can do it without-
Lissa: You can do it all, right?
Raymond: Of course. It's a legal document-
Lissa: It's just-
Raymond: ... of two people contracting to a certain set of laws.
Lizzy: I think, and this is not codified, but I think the distinction, just from social context, is because there is so much religion in our cultural history as a nation, marriage is very sacred for people. And that's the argument, whether you agree with it or not, and I do not, that same-sex marriage had to be a separate thing, had to be domestic partnership. So I think that's why it's a very loaded thing. And so I could see the argument for domestic partnership being separated from that. I don't know why you'd want that half of it and not the other half, but maybe.
Lissa: But yeah, I guess thinking if I had hit my 40s, 50s, single, but I had a really, really good friend, and knowing that domestic partnerships was an option versus marriage where I can get a couple of the benefits, but we don't have to officially call ourselves married-
Lizzy: Yeah, from a social standpoint.
Lissa: ... from a social standpoint, and it's one level removed from the whole romantic part of marriage too, even though domestic partnership can still be viewed like that, I feel like maybe I would. Because something else that I looked up was that adoption rights. I think when you're in even a domestic partnership, there's a level up of rights and you're going to be looked at as a more responsible couple.
Raymond: Look, either way, with marriage or domestic partnership, I think there's a level of commitment that it shows, right?
Lizzy: Absolutely.
Raymond: And with that commitment come those benefits. And I think as a whole, the general social construct is that we want to promote that commitment and we want to promote family, and we want to promote marriage. And with marriage and promoting that, you get some benefits with it.
Now, I know a lot of people that decide not to get married and decide to have a family without marriage or domestic partnership, and they have very successful relationships and they have a family and they're fine. I mean, it's a really, really, really personal decision.
Lissa: I guess in situations like that, how do they navigate the finances and the... I guess insurance, for example. I guess you can give insurance to your child, but if you're not married, how does that-
Raymond: I mean, look, everyone is kind of on their own, and that's the thing. I think with the domestic partnership or... It depends who you are in the relationship, but with domestic partnership or marriage, those benefits of the community property laws can really benefit one person. If one person, as you said, is not working, and somebody else is and you're just in a partnership, well, where's the security provided? And that's where that cohabitation agreement comes in or the prenup comes in or just the laws of our state come in. They provide for that protection in that committed relationship. And without them, you don't have that.
Lizzy: Yeah. Those are the examples I can think of. Even like the one with a woman and her housekeeper, which was a marriage, but if you had objections to the social context or cultural context of marriage, sure. And I think even in scenarios where there's companionship or commitment, but some inequity in financial power or some kind of capital, but you want to protect this person and give them some of your benefits and the legal protection of that, I could see why you would navigate it that way.
Raymond: Right.
Lizzy: But it's a niche case.
Lissa: Yeah. I was going to say before this episode, had you ever thought of it as an option for you?
Lizzy: No. Yeah. It's marriage or bust in my head.
Lissa: Marriage or bust.
Raymond: Yeah. I mean, that's where most people land. It's either we're getting married or we're not.
Lissa: Yeah. Maybe if we do a follow-up to this episode, get a same-sex couple who had to navigate this or who chose it. Just because I wonder from the social side of what it meant to them. I'm sure it means something to have that formal commitment.
Raymond: Well, look, for a lot of same-sex couples pre-passing of the laws, that was the only way that they would be able to get those benefits, and a lot-
Lissa: Which is huge.
Raymond: Which are huge. I mean, not only the creation of community property, but hospital rights and inheritance rights and the laws that opposite-sex marriages took for granted, but that same-sex couples really want to enter into a committed relationship and get those benefits that they truly deserve. And so they had no other choice but to enter into domestic partnership because we didn't recognize marriage. But then once the laws passed and they're able to get married, and now domestic partnership is open to everyone after 2020. But that was [inaudible 00:28:11].
Lissa: In the state of California.
Raymond: In the state of California. California opened it up to really everyone 2020.
Lissa: All right. So I would imagine then, do you think there's any reason for other states to consider this as an option, right? Because there's only seven states in the District of Columbia where it's a thing. Obviously politics and nuance aside, is there even any reason to make that an offering?
Raymond: Well, it depends. I think there are certain states that do recognize common law marriage. So the states that do recognize common law marriage, then you're kind of getting those rights based on those requirements and those-
Lizzy: Got it.
Raymond: On the law, right?
Lissa: Oh, got it.
Raymond: But because we don't recognize common law here-
Lizzy: We needed something else.
Lissa: That makes sense.
Raymond: ... that's where those Marvin cases come in or the one step up of domestic partnerships.
Lizzy: Interesting.
Lissa: So in terms of domestic partnership and common law marriage, are those similar or are they completely differentiated?
Raymond: Well, I mean, domestic partnership, you're actually filing something with the state and declaring something. I'll be honest, because we don't recognize it here in California, I don't know how common law marriage is established in other states.
Lissa: Right. Got it.
Raymond: But I assume it's very much in line with what we have as cohabitation, but there might be requirements of how long you're living together, certain requirements of joint assets or things like that.
Lissa: Proof. Proof that... Yeah.
Raymond: Yeah, proof of that has occurred-
Lissa: Okay. That makes sense.
Raymond: ... over a certain period of time. And I assume that that's the way it is.
Lizzy: And here in that cohabitation scenario, like the Marvin v. Marvin, does that apply specifically to assets in that implicit contract or explicit contract, or does it apply to things like hospital rights?
Raymond: No, there's no... It's just straight-up property division and possibly spousal support.
Lizzy: Okay. So there's still some differences.
Raymond: Or it's called palimony, but it's the same-
Lizzy: Palimony.
Raymond: ... as spousal support. But it's more financial. In the event of the breakup, there are no rights that are created during the cohabitation.
Lizzy: Got it. Good to know.
Raymond: Yeah.
Lissa: Yeah. Good to know. So again, I never plan on being single or divorced ever, ever again, but it actually has made me think of those special use cases of why you would do a domestic partnership. They actually make sense to me.
Lizzy: Yeah. I-
Lissa: Because Allen and I officially got married two years ago, but we did our wedding a couple of weeks ago. And the whole thing, the courthouse part, you were there, Liz, as our witness, the whole past two years has been such a huge spectacle. It's so big that I can imagine if in the future anything were to ever happen and it's just like less of a spectacle, but you can still get some of those rights.
Lizzy: Yeah. The other example I thought of is if someone's spouse passes away, so they're married and they're think in their heart, "That was my wife or my husband, but I still want to, in the future, enter into a committed relationship, but marriage was this for me."
Lissa: Yeah. Like that was my one-
Lizzy: I could see a distinction on a personal or kind of a social level for that.
Lissa: Yes. You're good at coming up with examples of why someone might do a domestic partnership. I'm reaching. I'm trying to think of why would anyone do it now that same-sex marriages are a thing? Yeah.
Lizzy: There's a weird world out there. There's all kinds of situations.
Lissa: Yeah, there's so much nuance.
Raymond: There's all kinds of situations. Every relationship is different.
Lizzy: Yeah. All right.
Lissa: 20 cents?
Lizzy: Let's do this. 20 cents.
Lissa: 20 cents is the segment of the show where both Lizzy and myself, Lissa, each get 60 seconds to give our 2 cents on today's topic, whether it's a net positive or net negative for domestic partnerships. Where does 20 cents come from?
Lizzy: Because you get the opinion of two dimes.
Lissa: Two dimes plus our guest, Raymond. So, Liz, you're up first. 60 seconds on the clock. Let us know, are domestic partnerships worth it?
Lizzy: Okay. After this discussion, I can see various use cases for someone else and navigating your own personal feelings around marriage versus a domestic partnership. And let's be clear, for same-sex couples that don't have the right to get married, I fully support domestic partnership as at least a starting point.
For myself, I think go big or go home. I'd rather get married. I don't see the benefit for me, personally. So I'm going to say personally net negative.
Lissa: Personally net negative.
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: All right. Raymond, what about you?
Raymond: So again, as we discussed us, I generally don't see the legal benefit of domestic partnership. So I would say it's a net negative unless for social, personal, cultural reasons, the label of a marriage, you either don't like or you can't achieve, or you don't want to go down that road with that label. I think it's a net negative. At the end of the day, it's about the education. It's about knowing what you're signing up for. And I think a lot of people that believe it's a net positive or misinformed, mainly about the community property laws that are applied. So I would say net negative, you might as well just get married.
Lissa: Yeah. Nice.
Lizzy: Nice.
Lissa: Two net negatives. I mean, you guys summed it up really well. Because I'm a married woman now and don't ever plan on going through any of that ever again, I am going to go net negative.
Similar to you, Liz. I think if I was ever in that situation again of deciding if I want to be married, I would be marriage or bust or just like, yeah, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, whatever we want to call ourselves.
But I will say that this episode has been very enlightening to me because I never thought of it. I literally always just thought of domestic partnerships as, oh, that's another lower tier option than marriage. If you don't believe in the institution of marriage, all right, you go ahead and pick that. But when you hear what's behind it, the legal side of it of what actually happens, it's very much like marriage minus the federal rights. But it's very interesting.
Lizzy: Yeah, I learned a lot myself.
Lissa: I learned a lot. And hearing those use cases though, I can see why someone might choose it. I guess for me in my own life, I don't see it as... It's not important to me at all.
Lizzy: Yeah. You got a husband too.
Lissa: Yeah, I got a... Yeah. All right. Well, remember, this is what we think at this moment in time. All three of us net negative for domestic partnerships in our own lives, but no one can make that decision but you. So what do you think? Are domestic partnerships worth it?
Lizzy: Hit us up. Let us know what you think. DM us on Instagram @netnetpodcast or email us at hi@netnetpodcast.com. And if you want to follow us individually, here's where you can find us.
Lissa: I'm @wealthforwomenofcolor on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram.
Lizzy: And I'm @live_well_lizzy on Instagram and TikTok.
Raymond: And I'm @theprenupguy on TikTok, hekmatfamilylaw on Instagram, and you can find my website, hekmatfamilylaw.com.
Lissa: All references, statistics, and resources mentioned can be found in our show notes. This podcast is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, and should not be constituted as financial or legal advice. Remember to always do your own research, consult a professional as needed, and feel empowered to make your own damn decisions.