Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of recreational sports leagues. From registration fees and equipment purchases to post-game hangouts, there are financial and time commitments that can add up quickly. While sports offer a lot of great physical benefits, they can also pose the risk of potential injury. Whether you're a weekend warrior or considering joining your first league, this episode is for you.
Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of recreational sports leagues. From registration fees and equipment purchases to post-game hangouts, there are financial and time commitments that can add up quickly. While sports offer a lot of great physical benefits, they can also pose the risk of potential injury. Whether you're a weekend warrior or considering joining your first league, this episode is for you.
Main Topics
00:00 Introduction
01:12 Running The Numbers Segment
02:48 What is a Recreational Sports League?
04:35 Financial Costs of Playing
06:41 The Risk of Injury
15:04 Emotional and Mental Costs
26:39 The Highs and Lows
30:39 Balancing Time and Commitment
35:35 Sharing Our Memorable Moments
42:25 Aging Athletes
44:48 20 Cents Segment
References for Statistics
https://sfia.org/resources/sfias-topline-participation-report-shows-strong-positive-trends-across-multiple-sports-and-fitness-categories-2/
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/06/03/sports-participation
https://civicscience.com/americans-embrace-recreational-sports-leagues-to-improve-health-and-social-connections-post-pandemic/
Lissa: Recreational sports are a great way to stay fit and a great way for everyday athletes to relive their glory days. But it's also a means of getting hurt or injured. Have you ever played in a rec league before?
Lizzy: Oh, so many times.
Lissa: I know. I already knew that. Today, we are discussing Are Rec Leagues Worth It?
Lizzy: Let's talk about it.
Lissa: Welcome to Net Net with Lizzy & Lissa where we analyze hidden costs and empower you to make your own damn decisions in life. Each episode covers a different facet of life. And at the end of each episode, we each give our takes on whether we think something is net positive or net negative.
Lizzy: I'm Lizzy, a strategist and consultant with almost 20 years of experience in finance and investing.
Lissa: And I'm Lissa, a personal finance expert and accredited financial counselor. We're best friends who talk about money-
Lizzy: And everything else.
Lissa: Are rec leagues worth it?
Lizzy: First up, running the numbers on recreational sports leagues.
Lissa: According to the Sports and Fitness Industry Association, in 2023, 242 million Americans or 78% of Americans participated in an activity one or more times.
Lizzy: Damn. that's a lot.
Lissa: And it was an increase from the previous year.
Lizzy: That's more than I would've thought, to be honest with you.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: All right. Well, no surprise here. Pickleball is the biggest growing sport in the US since 2016, while basketball, tennis, and golf have the most participants overall.
Lissa: Yep. So, those statistics were about sports activities altogether. But specific to recreational sports leagues, data from CivicScience revealed 9% of US adults say that they're currently playing in a league, 11% aren't currently playing but they plan to do so in the future, and 21% of people say that they've taken part in a league in the past and don't plan on doing it in the future.
Lizzy: Okay. So that leaves the remaining 59% of adults who said, "I haven't participated and I'm not interested."
Lissa: 40% to have played in recreational leagues is still pretty high to me.
Lizzy: Yeah. But that's funny because given our little bubble that we live in, that seems so low.
Lissa: True.
Lizzy: But we are very biased.
Lissa: True. Well, we know there is more to life than numbers and statistics, so let's get into it. Are recreational sports leagues worth it?
Lizzy: I got so much to say.
Lissa: Let's define it, I guess. Especially for the people who don't know what they are.
Lizzy: Sure. So to me, a recreational sports league is a community league. It is an amateur league for fun, for recreation. Usually, it's by your parks and rec association or some part of the civic center that puts on these leagues. Sometimes, they're privately owned and you pay a fee to participate in this league for, let's say, 2 to 3 months at a time often. And you are there with like-minded adults who do this for fun, all levels of experience often. And it's just kind of a hobby to pursue sports.
Lissa: Yeah. And so obviously, the biggest reason... Well, I don't want to just guess. The big reasons people do it is to stay physically fit and it's fun.
Lizzy: Yeah. I think a lot of people played sports in high school or growing up. And whether they played in college or not, it's a means to stay connected to that sport. That's often something that they love and stay fit. And I think it's a big source of community for a lot of people. It's a great way to make friends. I'll dig into that a little bit more, the pros and cons of that. But it's a way to get out of the house, see other people, engage with other people, and do something physically active.
Lissa: So, lots of great stuff. Why even make an episode about it? Why even question whether or not-
Lizzy: The dark side of rec leagues.
Lissa: Why even question whether or not they're worth it? It sounds like all good stuff to me, you know?
Lizzy: All right, let's talk about the costs.
Lissa: Okay.
Lizzy: First straightforward, financial costs.
Lissa: Yeah, pretty straightforward. It can range how much it costs to participate in one of these.
Lizzy: Yeah, some of them are a little more extensive. We've typically played... We've played basketball most often, you and I. I've also played flag football, you've also played tennis. I've maybe played some other things here and there. But usually for your registration fee, you get to participate in the league. That pays for facilities or for referees and a little bit back to the league. And then often, I'll pay for a jersey or a T-shirt, maybe a trophy for the winner at the end.
I've played in some leagues that are technically still a rec league but are kind of higher bar, higher talent, and have higher quality jerseys and that kind of thing. So, those go up. But I would say it's usually around 100 bucks.
Lissa: For a season?
Lizzy: For a season. Somewhere in there.
Lissa: So at least in basketball, and I've played tennis, it's usually in the more than 100, less than 200 range for basically about 2 to 3 months worth of weekly games or something.
Lizzy: Right. And so if you break that down by weeks, yeah, maybe...
Lissa: $10?
Lizzy: $10 a week, something like that. Which if you compare that to a fitness class that you were going to pilates or a yoga class, it's pretty affordable. And then, there's all of these other benefits.
Lissa: Yeah. I guess, I don't know what it costs for maybe more expensive sports. Maybe if there's like golf amateur leagues or things like that.
Lizzy: Yeah, I'm not sure.
Lissa: But on the team sports side of it where it's these fun leagues for volleyball, flag football, basketball, even more individual sports like tennis, it always feels to me in that range. Yeah.
Lizzy: Yeah, that's in my experience as well.
Lissa: So, [inaudible 00:06:27]-
Lizzy: So, pretty nominal fee, pretty accessible. Which is another benefit of it, right? It's kind of an equalizer, pretty democratic access to these leagues.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: All right, let's talk about the other costs.
Lissa: Well, the big costs in my opinion and in my experience is the risk of injury.
Lizzy: Certainty of injury.
Lissa: Risk. Knock on wood. Risk. And then obviously when you get injured, that has all the cost-
Lizzy: Ripple effects. That has so many costs.
Lissa: It has financial costs. This health, medical costs. It also has emotional costs, stress. It has actual... If you can't move or you can't do your normal activity, that can also affect your health even further.
Lizzy: Yeah. So, a few things. One, playing sports in general, you have a risk of injury. In rec sports, these rec leagues, this is often people who are not playing this sport five days a week. Maybe, they used to when they're younger. Not necessarily in the same shape or conditioning, same upkeep on their joints, their small stabilizer muscles, all of this stuff. You're aging, right? A lot of people in these leagues, we're in our 30s, 30s, 40s sometimes. And so your body's not what it used to be, you're trying to do the things it used to do or you're just playing the sport, something goes wrong.
And that's not to say you couldn't get injured not playing in a league or playing just a pickup game or something like that. But often, sometimes that competitive environment where it is a structured game increases the intensity, increases the likelihood you're going to push yourself. Speaking from basketball experience, playing a pickup game versus playing in a league is a whole different level of shape to be in. And it's often hard to get sub, so we're playing the whole game. You're exerting yourself often, probably beyond your realistic limits.
So, what has your history been with injuries?
Lissa: Interestingly, my first major injury from basketball was in my 20s, and I tore my ACL playing pickup. So it wasn't in a league, but that started a whole string of issues for the next 8 to 10 years. And it was a mix of things. So that was my first major injury but the next major injury happened in a rec league, and it was just re-tearing the same ACL. And I guess, some of that could have been part to me not rehabbing it properly. But-
Lizzy: I will say, Lissa rehabs more diligently than anyone I've ever met in my life.
Lissa: No. But back then, I would say I didn't know enough and my insurance wasn't good enough.
Lizzy: Got it.
Lissa: That when I was picking surgeons, I wasn't getting multiple opinions. I was just going with whatever they told me. For physical therapy, which I had to do after surgeries, I didn't look up all these different places. I just went to wherever took my insurance. And having had those experiences in my earlier years compared to the most recent time that I had gotten surgery, which was for an accident, but still, I knew now to who were the best doctors to go to.
Lizzy: Sure.
Lissa: If they were out of network for my medical insurance, still, I would go to the best place. Same with physical therapy.
So I've had a journey of like, it probably benefited me in the long run because now that I'm in my late 30s and I still participate in sports, I'm so much smarter about prepping, strengthening, stability, recovery. And had I not ever gotten hurt or gone through that whole rigmarole of having to take time off, I probably would... I think a lot of people I see in our league, they don't do all of that prep.
Lizzy: Not doing anything.
Lissa: And it's just you set yourself up for more likelihood of getting hurt. You can't avoid it completely in a... Well, in any sport. But I would say certain sports have higher risk where there's contact.
Lizzy: When there's contact, yeah. Definitely.
Lissa: It's basketball, flag football.
Lizzy: Absolutely.
Lissa: Soccer.
Lizzy: Soccer? For sure.
Lissa: So there's some sports that even if you train really, really well, you can't predict someone running into you or falling into you or bumping you.
Lizzy: Yeah. Or just a bump or... Yeah.
Lissa: Yeah. So, lots of risk there.
Lizzy: I will say though, some of my worst injuries and worst injuries I've seen were non-contact in rec leagues. I have had a history of terrible ankle injuries, left and right. Terrible ankle injury convinced me to stop playing flag football. We played on turf. It was non-contact. It was a blowout in the very last second, and I just stepped. My cleats got stuck on the turf and I couldn't run. I was out for almost a whole year trying to recover from that. And then I've dislocated my shoulder repeatedly and had to go through really intensive physical therapy for that. Most recently, broke my other ankle. That was playing pickup and that was a contact injury. But I've also seen many people tear their Achilles right in front of my face non-contact.
Lissa: Oh, man. Which is usually non-contact.
Lizzy: Non-contact. Just step and it goes. So, really serious costs. I have a friend, shout out to the homie, who dislocated his patellar tendon and broke his patella in a rec league and has made this arduous journey back. And also, in his mid 30s. And in his case, he's a personal trainer, so his body and his mobility is his livelihood. So, that's another cost of these injuries.
So yeah, let's dig into the actual cost of getting injured.
Lissa: Oh, man. Well, first and foremost, I think if you don't have proper medical insurance, think about avoiding this risk. Right?
Lizzy: You know who I'm thinking of?
Lissa: No, I don't. You're going to have to tell me.
Lizzy: Friend of the pod.
Lissa: You're going to have to tell me after the episode.
Lizzy: No, a friend of the pod once got seriously injured playing basketball, did not have medical insurance, and had to wait it out and finesse it for it to kick in. Because that's a real thing, right?
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: And this was when we were very young.
Lissa: When you're younger, you don't really know how it all works and you also don't expect to get hurt. You're out there just having fun.
Lizzy: You Feel invincible.
Lissa: Yeah. You can get hurt at the gym, like lifting weights.
Lizzy: Yeah. Doing all kinds of stuff.
Lissa: It's just the level of risk when you're doing more different motions.
Lizzy: Yeah. So obviously the medical costs, whether that's your insurance premiums, whether it's the resulting bills of surgeries, physical therapy, you mentioned learning to go with a provider, whether or not they're covered by your insurance. I've had that experience where my medical insurance physical therapy was pretty bleak. And so, I went outside my insurance and I was paying 150 a session, which was like the homie rate. Shout out to our mutual former PT. But that adds up, right? That's a significant cost.
Lissa: Yes, it's a significant cost. I will say for me, in the more recent years, a lucky privilege that I am not bound to one medical provider. What's most important is that I get the best care, in my opinion. But yeah, I guess that's where you have to...
Only you know your own situation of how good is your medical insurance, how much of an emergency fund you have for those co-pays and co-insurance if you needed to use it. And no one wants to think about the potential of using it and jinxing yourself, but it's-
Lizzy: Yeah. Or is it worthwhile to go outside of your insurance because it's your body and you could argue it's the most important thing you have, and are you going to get the same quality of care? I've had to make that decision. So that's a big, big cost.
Lissa: Yeah. Well, okay. Financial costs for injuries and anything medical related, pretty obvious. Emotional toll and mental toll.
Lizzy: Oh, man.
Lissa: Have you ever had to rehab an injury or a surgery or anything? Not only is it taxing on you mentally and then also physically because you got to rehab. And in some cases-
Lizzy: If you're not-
You're temporarily disabled, so you can't get the endorphins from exercise that you would usually get.
Lissa: Well, that's what I'm going to say. So not only that, but then you can't do your usual sport-
Lizzy: Coping mechanisms.
Lissa: ... but you also can't do other types of physical fitness. Which for people who play in these types of leagues, they're usually the same demographic of people who have multiple avenues of getting physical activity.
Lizzy: Yeah, for sure. I think that was the hardest part for me and has been of not only can I not participate in this league anymore, play my sport, I also can't walk. And that's a huge factor not just in your day-to-day life.
Or like I remember, I broke my hand playing basketball, and I have to show up to a really high-end business meeting with a cast and explain why my dumb ass in my 30s dove for a ball. And also, can't do the same things I used to do. There's major costs to that mentally and the stress of it.
Lissa: You never really... This is a, kind of, off-topic but related. You never notice how much you need a particular finger until that finger is hurt. Can't imagine a whole hand arm or whatever, but-
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: Right? Like, you jam your pinky, all of a sudden you can't open jars.
Lizzy: Yeah, for real. Or a big toe?
Lissa: Yeah. It's a-
Lizzy: Bro, big toe. It's important.
Lissa: But yeah, shout out to anyone who has ever had to relearn how to walk or anything like that. I've definitely had to. And it's just frustrating because when you're just trying to get back, and especially if you're relearning how to walk, you feel helpless. You can't do things. And I've many a time gotten injured and had bouts of crying and not feeling myself. And for a very long time, basketball was my outlet.
I didn't have other mental health outlets. I think for a long time, I didn't understand what therapy was for. I didn't understand meditation. I didn't understand different forms of mental health and what tools to utilize when you're going through something. I was just always, I love basketball. So if I'm going through something, I'm going to go to the gym.
Lizzy: Hoop therapy, yeah.
Lissa: Hoop therapy. And that's the thing, when you lose that one thing that you always rely on.
Lizzy: Yeah. I mean to this day for me, I have many outlets. To this day, there is absolutely nothing better for my mental health. There's no comparison. There's no activity I've found like playing basketball. To the point where even being injured, I'll just go shoot or just be in the gym because it's a release. And that's why these decisions are so hard. It's like I know the likelihood of getting injured increases. I've been injured. I've dealt with this. But it's something that's like, "Ah, it's so good."
Lissa: So fun.
Lizzy: It's so fun.
Lissa: It's so fun.
Lizzy: It's such a release.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: And so again, back to the getting injured, there's the mental and emotional cost. It's also can be isolating. Either just you're stuck at home, you no longer have this community that you see every day. I mean, even on our last team, I wasn't able to play and I still went to the games every week because it's my people, my friends. But then you get major FOMO. It sucks. You're like, "I want to play. I can't do..."
It's like a helplessness, you know?
Lissa: Yeah. Okay. Obviously injuries, major cost. Yada, yada, yada. What about the cost of playing? The emotional cost of playing? Because-
Lizzy: Oh, girl.
Lissa: ... I was just thinking the league that I'm currently in, Liz is sitting out right now. You're still part of the squad, but Liz is sitting out while she gets back to her true form. This league, like the league rep, the guy who manages it and runs it, last season during playoffs, he had to email all the team managers, all the teams to say, "Hey, you guys. This is not that serious. This is not-"
Lizzy: This is a recreational league.
Lissa: "This is not NBA. This is not professional. You all need to tone it down with the fighting, the arguing, the pushing, all this stuff." And it's like, yeah, people get so riled up.
Lizzy: Well, to your point, for a lot of people, this is the only therapy they've ever had. They've maybe never made that progression to having other outlets for their emotions, so it all gets channeled in there. And you're competitive, right?
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: We have both been part of some intense battles, some moments.
Lissa: Well, I've had a... I don't know. I never had an epiphany. I don't know what to call it. Maybe it's just a journey where in my 20s, I felt like I was affected emotionally so much more so than I am now. Last week, we had our first L. we had our first loss in the last two seasons. We went last season undefeated. Which actually, is it even that fun when you just win all the time? Yeah. Okay, it is. [inaudible 00:20:53]
Lizzy: I'd rather have it be competitive.
Lissa: Right. I'd have some competition, right?
Lizzy: It was competitive sometimes, but-
Lissa: It was competitive, but we still ended up managing to win all the games. This season, we took a L last week and I was just okay with it. I was like, "You know what? They played really well." That other team we played, they showed up, they were on fire. They deserve that win. I'm still upset we lost, but you know what? It is what it is. I left unscathed. I'm not injured. I got a good workout. They really made me work that game.
And that's what it was. If that same thing happened 5 years ago or 10 years ago, I'd have been pissed. I'd have been mad at myself for how I did. I would've been mad at teammates if they were... Not my teammates. My teammates are great. But I would've found something to be upset about. But-
Lizzy: Yeah, for sure. I think I didn't always get... As he did, I get competitive but differently. But I've probably had a similar progression because I think I spent time away from it and just had to find value in other things to where it's not the end of the world. And it's hard though, because I've definitely had moments where it ruins your day, it ruins your week. You're like, "Oh, we lost." Or, "I played like shit. I didn't live up to my own expectations." And then this is kind of a niche-ier part of it is we play in a lot of co-ed leagues.
Lissa: Yeah. Awesome.
Lizzy: So there's all of these other elements of being a woman in a, quote-unquote, male sport and having to navigate so much sexism within that. Of do you have teammates who are going to give you the ball who respect you? The comments. People who just automatically assume they know more than you because they're a man. It is still almost every week occurrence, and it's a lot. It's frustrating.
Lissa: Man, I got stories that just made me think. So luckily, the team we're on now, co-ed, guys and girls, everyone respects each other.
Lizzy: The best team ever. The best.
Lissa: Yeah, the best team. It's so fun because I think we've actually win. We are really good, but I think we win because the guys on our team actually respect us as players. Whereas most of the other teams, they won't pass it to the girl unless they-
Lizzy: It's an afterthought.
Lissa: Yeah, it's an afterthought. But it made me think. So for many years, I played in a men's league. You played in it too, at one point. But there was a good stretch where I was the only woman in this league, and the reason I was able to do that was because they didn't have a women's league that I could join. So, it had to be called open league. It wasn't a men's league.
It was technically an open league. I played in it. It was a different dynamic because I'm tiny. I'm like 5'2. I'm the smallest person in the league, probably one of the slowest, but I have pretty decent basketball skills-
Lizzy: For sure.
Lissa: ... so I could still hang. And I dealt with, like one time, the ref was sexist.
Lizzy: Oh, I've had that, too. For sure.
Lissa: But he specifically was like, "You don't belong here. You're a woman. Get off the court." Because I was in this supposed men's league.
Lizzy: Yeah. I've-
Lissa: That hurts me.
Lizzy: Between us-
Lissa: I was upset. I cried over that afterwards because everyone had my back on that team, but it was just like, damn. Why do I have to deal with that? It's not fair.
Lizzy: The amount of just where it's so infuriating because it's so wrong and so unjust and people can be so narrow-minded. The amount of time, so I have a different experience because I'm tall and I'm strong, so I actually match up very well with a lot of the men in the league. And so then, it's frustrating for them. I'm not saying I can guard everyone by any means, but often, I can guard a guy very easily. I'm a good defender. And so, I get a lot of guys feeling emasculated and then calling me a bitch, or then trying to undercut me because they feel undercut. And/Or like, "Oh, I could score 50 on you if I wanted." But you didn't.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: But you didn't, though. And so, having to have those experiences and carry that with you, there's a lot of emotional baggage coming into this stuff.
Lissa: Yeah. I was about to say because yeah, we could be competitive and we choose to be part of these environments, but it's still unfair to have to carry that with you after the game. Like, damn. I have to be subject to this discrimination.
Lizzy: Yeah. And sometimes it's a prove yourself kind of thing. So for example, we talked about the team we play on, which we have a long history of playing together and a lot of them are friends we've played with since we met almost 20 years ago. So a lot of that friendship and respect is at the heart of why this one team is really fun. And I've recently played on other teams where that wasn't the case and it was more of that you're an afterthought dynamic. And it's like, "Oh wait, I'm going back to having to prove that I deserve the ball."
Or even another niche-y example is I'm tall but I don't play a post player. I play a guard, if you're familiar with basketball. And so, being pigeonholed into a certain role and how that can be frustrating. There's a lot of dynamics there.
Lissa: All right. I came up with another niche cost to being part of a rec league. So because of all those experiences in these men's open league, I was like, "You know what? Let me sign up for a women's league." Okay?
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: Nothing wrong with women's leagues except for me, I particularly don't like playing with... A women's basketball is smaller and I just suck with it. Or having to go back and forth is tough.
Lizzy: Yeah, it's really hard. It's different weight, different size.
Lissa: Yeah. I can play with it, but it's just-
Lizzy: So adjusting back and forth on a regular basis, it really messes with your shot.
Lissa: Right. But so I found this league and this team to join, and I drove really far to get to it every week. It was in Hollywood but it was during traffic hours, so it would take me like 45 to an hour to get there at times. And the frustration that I would have is some weeks I'd go out and it'd be fine, get a little workout in. But there'd be some weeks where I'd drive all this way, all this traffic, all this gas money, and then I get there and then it's just like, oh, my team can't control the ball. We got people on one team or another team shooting at the wrong basket.
It's bringing me back to my younger high school days where we had people who didn't really play on the team.
Lizzy: For sure, yeah.
Lissa: And I know it's just for fun. I know this is just recreation. But it's still frustrating because you tack on the fact that it's taking my time to get out there and it's just not even fun at that point. So, it's frustrating. Frustration is the cost.
Lizzy: For sure. I played in that same league years before, and I had to really manage my mindset around it because I loved my teammates. And some were experienced and some were not, and we were not great. Although, I think we ended up winning out one season. But there was a wide discrepancy of teams. A lot of people were total beginners. This is in Hollywood, so there's a lot of entertainment teams and comedians and stuff that play in it. And that's very different than leagues that...
Other women's leagues I've played in that are super competitive and almost the opposite end of the spectrum where I'm like, "This is too intense for me."
Lissa: Yeah. Where it's almost like it's not even amateur. It's like right below professional, right?
Lizzy: Yeah. Which actually reminds me, I played in a league for a few seasons called Basketball Beauties League, which is kind of like a pro Am entertainment league. Lots of...
Lissa: Influencers?
Lizzy: Influencers playing it. And most of them are really beautiful women, have a following, and actually are legitimately very good at basketball.
Lissa: And some are like ex-WNBA.
Lizzy: A lot, yeah. Several. I had a ex-WNBA player on my team. It's the most high-level basketball league I've ever played in ever. It was just interesting that it happened to be a lot of really cute girls. And so, they would get all kinds of people to come out. This thing, I didn't have to pay anything to participate in, and they gave you some swag and stuff. But it was really intense and I liked it, but eventually it became too competitive for me.
Lissa: And not fun?
Lizzy: No. Where it wasn't fun anymore. And that leads me to another thing of there's a lot of clickyness in these rec leagues. So, this can be a pro and a con. A lot of people join leagues, especially if they're new to a city or... How do you meet friends as an adult? Find a hobby, play a sport. So we've both made lots of friends through these leagues, both probably dated people through these leagues. Good way to meet people. I have found that some of them can be very, very clicky. Very classic high school drama where everyone knows everyone's business, everyone can date everyone. It's very incestuous and I had to navigate that in the past year. And it was kind of a surprise to me because I didn't expect it. And so, that can be another cost of the community.
Lissa: Is which should be a good thing, and normally is a good thing, but can sometimes have a downside too.
Lizzy: Exactly. And I don't think that's the case in every league. Even within the same broader league, I had a different experience playing basketball than playing football. But you often see a lot of people who play many nights a week for a given sport or multiple sports. This is their life. They're going to be in 5, 6, 7 leagues at once. And more power to them.
That brings up another, time and driving. That's a whole other different kind of cost. But then that the flip side is they're involved with their community and their friends on a regular basis.
Lissa: I would say, we both had many years where that was the thing we did outside of work is play sports, whether it's pick up or as part of an organized league. And now that I think about it, I'm like, "Dang. How did I..." I guess, I didn't do... I don't know, work or other life goals beyond work and sport for a long time. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think in hindsight, I probably would've shifted my schedule a little bit because there's so many other things I do want to do in life but I always put off. Like, I want to take golf lessons someday. I want to take an art class. But when am I going to do it? Because I'm in all these leagues and stuff. So, it can be a time drain.
Lizzy: Yeah, it's definitely a time drain. Even if it's only an hour or so a week, you get there early, you prep time, hang out after. Sometimes, we'll go get food or grab drinks. Especially the league we play in is on a Sunday, often in the middle of the day, which is like it's on your weekend, football season. You're missing games if you watch football. So there's the cost of that, for sure.
And then I think the furthest I've driven... Now because I've relocated, even coming to our Sunday league, sometimes it takes almost an hour and a half, two hours, which is insane with Sunday traffic. That's why I don't come every week, but...
Lissa: Yeah. I mean, you have to really like it and enjoy it to commit because it is a lot of time. On the flip side, I think some people, they drop in and then they drop out. They'll come in, go play their game and then be out, and that's just the workout for the day or the week. So, there are ways I think you make it what it is in your own life. Something that I just thought of too, I played in a tennis league and it was doubles. And it was mixed doubles, so it was supposed to be a guy and a girl on the doubles team. But of course, I always do things different. My teammate was a girl, so we would just have fun. We actually won matches. In tennis, it's less of a thing to guys versus girls. It's less of a thing. It's more skills-based, I would say.
But one time we played this couple and I don't know what was going on on their side, they were so mad and frustrated. There was rackets thrown. They stormed out. They were upset about the game. And we're like, "It's supposed to be for fun." Now, not only did you guys not have fun and we're kind of feeling that energy also, but you all about to go home-
Lizzy: And fight.
Lissa: ... and then you have to fight and deal with this over a sport.
Lizzy: So actually, that brings up a whole other thing which is kind of a side note of playing in a rec league with someone you're dating. I think I've maybe only done that one time. Or I mean, many times but with one partner, with my ex. And it was very fortunate that we played well together and our styles of play were similar and complementary, but there are definitely people who do not play well together. I know some examples and that's a weird strain on your relationship. Right? You're supposed to be doing this thing you love together, but-
Lissa: Yeah. For fun, recreationally.
Lizzy: ... like, "You didn't pass to me." And, "Why did you do that stupid shit?" Or I've seen people get into fights and the other person has to get in the middle. It's a whole other stressor that could be a benefit, a shared activity, but maybe not.
Lissa: Oh, man. Like I said, me in my 20s, I got into more, I guess fights that would bleed into my life after the game emotionally. Nowadays, I just don't have that. I don't have the capacity for that. Now, it's for fun or I'm out, or there's no reason to do it.
Lizzy: Yeah, agreed.
Lissa: But I do think that is-
Lizzy: But we've seen some shit.
Lissa: Yeah. I'm sure that's not the case for a lot of people.
Lizzy: No.
Lissa: For a lot of people, they are mad and they will stay mad. And who knows? They might have road rage when they leave because of it.
Lizzy: Yeah. No, people really have real life beef over some of this stuff. I know many examples. It's crazy.
Lissa: Pick up basketball is a whole different world when it comes to that. But we're talking recreational-
Lizzy: Rec league.
Lissa: ... organized sports. We've gone up and down about the benefits but also some of the costs. I do want to go back to the benefits, though. At the beginning, I mentioned reliving glory days. So the feeling when you win a championship, that doesn't mean anything in the real world. What does that feel like?
Lizzy: Oh god, it's amazing. It's triumph.
Lissa: It's true.
Lizzy: It's glory. It's the best, especially if it's competitive.
Lissa: For why? But for why? For who? Just is?
Lizzy: Pride. I don't know. Achievement, right? Overcoming odds.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: It's funny... Side note, I had a reminder. One of those memories popped up on social media just today, that I think this was like... God, how many? 2014, probably. Seven years ago.
Lissa: Oh, wow.
Lizzy: When I was on that-
Lissa: 7 year... 2014 is 10 years ago.
Lizzy: Sorry. I was thinking 2017 in my head.
Lissa: Okay.
Lizzy: 2014, 10 years ago. My bad. When I was playing in that not so great women's league, I had a game winner, and it was like a memory came up about it. And that feeling, that's a crazy feeling.
Lissa: So, you have a video of it?
Lizzy: No. But-
Lissa: Oh, you post about it?
Lizzy: Yeah, I posted about it.
Lissa: Yeah. But you remember it.
Lizzy: Because it was one of those games where we were not supposed to win. The real story, going back to our alcohol episode, is I didn't drink alcohol. We had a terrible team and we were playing the best team in the league. And so I bet my teammates that I would do a shot if we won because I was just like, "No way." We ended up winning and I had a game winner, and I had to do a shot of tequila.
Lissa: So another crazy benefit, we have a lot of close friends, and maybe you too, who can recount and recall so many triumph moments and stories of like, "When you pass the ball to so-and-so and then they hit me with the alley-oop."
Lizzy: Correct. Oh, my god. My-
Lissa: I'm like, "What? What a alley-oop?" Right?
Lizzy: My memory is terrible for that.
Lissa: Yeah. Okay, my memory is also terrible.
Lizzy: I'm the worst.
Lissa: But I have a few great moments. One, you were part of it, was there was one semi-final game that... So basically, the way our league works, you play a bunch of games, then you go into playoffs. And then it's like if you lose, you're out. But if you win, you keep going until the championship. So we were in the game before the championship and we were down 20 plus points in a rec league basketball game, which feels almost like you can't come back.
Lizzy: Insurmountable.
Lissa: Yeah, you can't. Insurmountable is the word.
Lizzy: Got you.
Lissa: See my vocabulary, I don't know what's going on with it. But insurmountable, it seems like that. But somehow someway, our team got back. We just turned it on and we came back to win the game. And that feeling was so good because it was just teamwork.
Lizzy: Teamwork, yeah.
Lissa: Yeah. Like, we are a team. We are there for each other. We all bring each other up. There's no feeling to replace that.
Lizzy: Yeah. And you know what? A lot of my warm, fuzzy feelings are around my friends. You had a 40 piece one time or a 50 piece or something.
Lissa: Oh yeah, that was the most I've ever scored in life. And I've been playing basketball since I was 11. Yeah, there was one time I had a 40-point game, 40 something.
Lizzy: Yeah, you went crazy.
Lissa: Crazy.
Lizzy: Or think of our friend Tony, who would have so many threes in a row.
Lissa: About 10 3s in a game? Like-
Lizzy: 10 3s, and just like go. He's locked in. There's been fun moments, for sure.
Lissa: So yeah, when we started the episode where I was like, "What is the downside? Because it's so great." Obviously, there's cost to it, right?
Lizzy: There's a lot of costs. But-
Lissa: But there are also lots of benefits.
Lizzy: Right. Keeps us coming back.
Lissa: Right? I guess we've been talking about basketball a lot, but I know that this applies to a lot of people who have a sport that they love.
Lizzy: I think it's that competitive spirit, that passion for it. It's the same thing across the board, I feel like, for sports. It translates.
Lissa: Yeah. Alan has been playing some soccer lately and joined a league. What else have I seen? I met someone last week who, similar age to us, like late 30s, and she's in a volleyball league and loves it. It's so fun. It's just like you look forward to it. It's something to think about.
Lizzy: I have a funny little, I guess, benefit. Growing up, my stepdad played basketball. And he eventually retired from leagues, I think, in his early 40s. But pretty fairly late, right? So I would go to all of his games, and I have so many memories as a kid of being in the gym while he played. And I knew all of his teammates and go run on the floor at halftime, and then even playing in a men's adult league with him when I was 13. And I was not only the only girl but the only 13-year-old playing in the league on his team with his friends. And so there's this other cool element, if you do have kids, of modeling that for them and that lifestyle and getting them involved in the game. We have a few teammates who have kids. Some who bring them to the game, some who are just starting to play. And you get to share that with someone and still have a piece of your own identity.
Lissa: That just sparked two things. I guess, maybe a negative and a positive. I'll start with the negative. Okay, related to my mom. I think it started with my mom. She doesn't really bother me about it anymore. But in general, if you ever had an injury and the older you get, when you choose to still play a sport, everyone judges you. They'll be like, "Why would you play again? You're just going to get hurt. You're just going to get hurt." And it's all this negative energy around it. But unless you know the love for your game, it's just annoying to deal with. So, I'd say I dealt with a little bit of that in the past when I had initially gotten injured.
But onto the good story. It made me remember, maybe four years ago, my mom... Well, more than four years. This was pre-pandemic. My mom came out to LA. She rarely visits. She lives in Northern California. And I had a rec league game. My mom hadn't seen me play basketball in-person since high school.
Lizzy: That's cool.
Lissa: And she got to come watch me and I had a game. It was like a 20 pointer game. And so, it was just fun for her to see that I still got it and it was fun.
Lizzy: Yeah, sense of pride.
Lissa: So yeah, it was another warm moment.
Lizzy: Yeah, love that.
Lissa: You can't make this stuff up. It's just so fun.
Lizzy: I definitely get the judgment though, because I hear it from so many people. Like, "You need to retire."
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: "You need to retire."
And it's like, "I know. But I love it."
Lissa: I know.
Lizzy: The challenge though is, I think at this point for me, it's not... If I'll get injured again, it's when will I get injured again in some way. And that's hard.
Lissa: So, I've changed the way I play.
Lizzy: For sure.
Lissa: I used to drive into the paint often and then get fouled, and then maybe get injured. Now for the most part, I stay outside and I'll play...
I play differently.
Lizzy: Yeah, I play differently, too.
Lissa: That's a trade off. I still want to play, but I'm going to be more careful and mindful.
Lizzy: I had that realization. Like I said, broke my hand at 30 something years old, diving for a ball in a rec league. That wasn't even my team. I was substituting. And I was like, "What the hell am I doing?" So I've had to be much less aggressive, which is hard sometimes when you're in the heat of the game. Had to way calm it down. Dislocated my shoulder swatting at the ball, so I have to change the way I play defense. It's tough.
Lissa: Luckily, our team is so good now that we have room for error. Because if the ball is on the ground, I'm like I'll just let the other team go dive for it. I'll just look at it. At this point-
Lizzy: You got a little margin.
Lissa: At this point, I'm not going to mess with it. If it was a closer game, maybe. But no, it's not even worth it to me.
Lizzy: You know what that reminds me of, though? The other mental cost of knowing you can't do the things you used to do.
Lissa: That is a big mental cost.
Lizzy: Like, oh my God, my body used to be able to do this. I want my body to do it now. And it can't because I'm... I think we tell ourselves, "Because I'm not in the same shape." Really, I'm older. I'm older, I'm slower. It doesn't move the way I used to. And that's a painful one.
Lissa: I was just talking to one of the teammates about this where like... Because Alan came to watch a couple of weeks ago and I gave him my camera. I was like, "Take some B roll, some footage. I could use it in my YouTube channel." And on the court, I feel so quick and fast.
Lizzy: Oh, when you see it-
Lissa: You watch it, and you're so slow.
Lizzy: ... it's like slow motion. It is slow motion. You're like, "Wow."
Lissa: Yeah, so there's that. And then some of the guy, not me, but some of the guys are who used to be able to dunk so easily and just wish they could again. But it's like you have to work towards it. You can't [inaudible 00:44:34].
Lizzy: Yeah, we're just... Body not the same.
Lissa: Or give it up.
Lizzy: The saucer is not the same.
Lissa: Yeah. Or give it up.
Lizzy: Changes.
Lissa: Or just bring the rim closer because why not?
Lizzy: Yeah, or that. Yeah, just lower the rim.
Lissa: Anyway.
Lizzy: Man.
Lissa: All right, 20 cents.
Lizzy: All right, you all.
Lissa: 20 cents? 20 cents.
20 cents is the segment of the show where both Lizzy and myself, Lissa, each get 60 seconds to give our 2 cents on today's topic which is recreational sports leagues, whether it is a net positive or a net negative. Where does 20 cents come from?
Lizzy: Because you all get the opinion of 2 dimes.
Lissa: Throw dimes. Wait, what's the...
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: A dish dimes in basketball.
Lizzy: You can throw dimes, yeah.
Lissa: You can throw dimes?
Lizzy: You can throw dimes, yeah.
Lissa: Yeah. Lots of dimes.
Lizzy: Lots of dimes. Dime's all around.
Lissa: Also, basketball reference for those who don't watch basketball. Anyway, I don't know which direction you're going to go.
Lizzy: I don't either.
Lissa: Yeah. So Liz, you're up first. 60 seconds on the clock, are rec leagues worth it?
Lizzy: Okay. So my current status right now, I am part of a team but I haven't played for two whole seasons because of injury.
Lissa: You've paid both times.
Lizzy: I've paid both times. I thought I was going to be able to come back this season and I'm not sure because I kind of tweaked my ankle again, and I don't want to rush it. And I really miss it but I'm also not pressed. So I think, I'm going to say not worth it for me right now.
Lissa: Today.
Lizzy: As in today. And once I'm able to play again, I'll reevaluate. But I've definitely let go of a lot of attachment to it, and I'm looking more towards other activities that I can pursue that will give me that same fulfillment and not put my entire wellness at stake. Because the cost of getting hurt and not being able to do anything is too high.
Lissa: So, net negative?
Lizzy: Net negative, I think.
Lissa: All right.
Lizzy: Don't tell our teammates.
Lissa: Yeah. It's just for right now, today at this moment.
Lizzy: Just for right now, you all. Yeah.
All right, what about you?
Lissa: Are rec leagues worth it? I'm currently in a league. Actually, I have a game this weekend and I don't think I'm going to play. I haven't told the team yet. I've been having this pain in my chest this whole week. I don't think it's related to anything fitness-related but I am seeing a doctor and going through all those things, so I think I'm just going to sit out for a week or two. That said, I'm still in this league. I still plan to play the next season, so net positive for me, but with the nuance that it's not the most important thing in the world to me like it used to be. Where if I got to take a break or if I got to sit out or if I just show up to go watch and support my team, I'm fine with that. It's going to be less of a feeling FOMO and like, "No, I got to play. If my legs work, then I'll play."
No. I got to be feeling good about my health that day because I'm not going to risk injury if I could avoid it.
Lizzy: Yeah, I think you and I used to take that commitment, probably so much more seriously than some other people. Like, "I have to be there." Or we don't have enough subs, we don't have enough people.
Lissa: Yeah. "They need me."
Lizzy: "We need this. We need to find it." And maybe because we both been captain at times, but-
Lissa: Yeah. And we're competitive.
Lizzy: ... like, no one else is driven about that.
Lissa: No one cares.
Lizzy: Yeah, no one cares.
Lissa: And who cares if you lose, too? What really... I mean, I do care about losing but it doesn't affect the rest of your life. It doesn't affect your bag. It doesn't affect anything else.
Lizzy: Nothing. Silly. Silly.
Lissa: Interestingly, Liz is net negative right now, I'm net positive. But no one can make that decision but you. What do you think? Are rec leagues worth it?
Lizzy: Hit us up. Let us know what you think. DM us on Instagram at netnetpodcast or email us at hi@netnetpodcast.com. And if you want to follow us individually, here's where you can find us.
Lissa: I'm @wealthforwomenofcolor on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram.
Lizzy: And I'm @live_well_lizzy on Instagram and TikTok.
Lissa: All references, statistics, and resources mentioned can be found in our show notes. This podcast is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, and should not be constituted as financial advice. Remember to always do your own research, consult a professional as needed, and feel empowered to make your own damn decisions.