Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of alternative medicine. They discuss holistic approaches to medicine, the limitations of medical insurance, and more. Plus, they share their experiences with acupuncture, herbs, energy healing, and more. What do you think, is alternative medicine worth it?
Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of alternative medicine. They discuss holistic approaches to medicine, the limitations of medical insurance, and more. Plus, they share their experiences with acupuncture, herbs, energy healing, and more. What do you think, is alternative medicine worth it?
Main Topics
00:00 What is Alternative Medicine?
01:50 Running The Numbers Segment
04:07 Western vs. Alternative Medicine
13:56 Personal Experiences and Challenges with Alternative Medicine
23:52 Exploring the Impact of Holistic Health
27:37 Costs and Risks of Investing in Alternative Medicine
30:45 Balancing Traditional and Alternative Medicine
40:36 20 Cents Segment
References for Statistics
https://www.statista.com/chart/29189/alternative-healing-methods/
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db325-h.pdf
Lissa: 21 percent of Americans prefer alternative medicine to conventional medicine, but is alternative medicine worth it?
Lizzy: When we say alternative medicine, we mean any practice that is designed to achieve healing that you can't get at a traditional doctor's office or hospital. So that includes a wide range of services and experiences from acupuncture, homeopathy and naturopathy.
Lizzy: Chinese and Eastern medicine, herbal medicine, meditation, energy healing, Tai Chi, Reiki, massage, yoga, chiropractic, hypnosis, sound baths, uh, medical marijuana or, you know, use of drugs for therapeutic purposes, essential oils and aromatherapy. Ayahuasca, crystals, so many, wide range.
Lissa: So some people consider it woo woo, but others swear by these methods of healing.
Lissa: Chances are that you've heard of something on this list, and you might have a strong opinion about whether or not it's worth the money. So let's talk about it.
Lissa: Welcome to Net Net with Lizzy and Lissa, where we analyze hidden costs and empower you to make your own damn decisions in life. Each episode covers a different facet of life, and at the end of each episode, we each give our take on whether something is a net positive or net negative.
Lizzy: I'm Lizzy, a strategist and consultant with 17 years of experience in finance and investing.
Lissa: And I'm Lissa, an accredited financial counselor and a personal finance content creator. We're best friends who talk about money.
Lizzy: And everything else.
Lizzy: First up, running the numbers on alternative medicine. What do we got?
Lissa: So the global complementary and alternative medicine market size was valued at 135 billion in 2023, and revenue is expected to grow over 350 billion by 2030.
Lissa: And that's not counting everything that we mentioned. I don't know what they consider in that category.
Lizzy: Alright, so a lot of people are spending money on this.
Lissa: A lot of people are spending money on it.
Lizzy: Which is interesting because we think of it, As this, like, idiosyncratic alternative thing.
Lissa: Yep.
Lizzy: Um, so, a 2023 survey by Cancer Therapy Advisor shows that 70 percent of cancer patients report using complementary or alternative medicine as part of their cancer care.
Lizzy: Which is significant.
Lissa: Significant. According to a 2021 survey by Statista, around 24 percent of adults in the United States reported using herbal medicines, supplements, or teas to treat health problems. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's, I'm one of them. Those are my
Lizzy: Flat tummy tea?
Lissa: Okay, not those teas for me, but these are my Chinese herbal teas on the table here for those watching the video.
Lissa: Yes, ma'am.
Lizzy: You're about that tea life. About that tea life. In the same study, around 10 percent of adults reported using non prescribed drugs, such as, uh, Marijuana and psychedelics as alternative medicines.
Lissa: That's 1 in 10. And yoga is one of the most commonly used approaches of complementary health, meaning holistic wellness alongside Western medicine.
Lissa: And it saw a 5 percent increase of use in a 5 year span from 2012 to 2017, and I'm guessing that has just risen to today.
Lizzy: Yeah, low key, that feels Low, it's saying, we're saying 10 percent of adults report doing yoga in 2012, 15 percent by 2017. I feel like, I mean, maybe it's just being in LA, but I feel like the percentage is pretty high.
Lissa: Well, so these numbers from all these studies, they barely scratch the surface on alternative medicine, but let's talk about it. Is alternative medicine worth it? Let's
Lizzy: go. What do you think? So, I think first it's important to look at why these are considered alternative in the first place as opposed to just commonly accepted practices.
Lizzy: So what's your take?
Lissa: Well, I think we, that's our name for it, right? But they are medicinal, they are practices that people use across the globe in different ways throughout history. I think a lot of times alternative medicine can be gets assumed to be just like Chinese Eastern medicine, and there's a Western and Eastern.
Lissa: Definitely, but it's not as clear cut as that, right? Like there's so much overlap A lot of so for example for those watching the video I have a bunch of my chinese herbal teas here given to me by my acupuncturist Um that I take for fertility and overall wellness um When I look up what's in them and I look up Like what this what herb or what plant this comes from?
Lissa: It comes from like the same plant where you would get Like for anti inflammatory stuff, like not just turmeric, but like, you know, something like that where it's either similar compounds or a similar effect that you would get from taking like an ibuprofen, which has other chemicals in it, this is just in its more natural form.
Lizzy: I think you're right in that there's this very western, white people view, I'm gonna just say it, a Eurocentric kind of, you know, colonization type of view, that this is the, the right way to do this and that inherently dismisses other views. And the reality is that historically, most societies, if not all societies, used plant based medicine, herbal medicine, and those are the kind of precursors to most of the modern drugs that we have today.
Lizzy: Um, just exactly to your point. So why do you think there is this kind of dichotomy?
Lissa: Well, I can't give you the full background and history, but some thoughts that I have on what we consider to be Western medicine. And I consider Western medicine to be, like if you, If you have medical insurance, the things that that would cover.
Lissa: So systemically, it's like, what would that cover? So you go to what is called a doctor, who goes through a specific type of training, right? Med school, residency, you know, becoming a doctor. Like, what those things are. What those people treat, I would consider to be your traditional. Sure. I agree. What it's called to be today, Western medicine.
Lissa: I think that there, there's a huge range of doctors. There's a, there's a, a lot who are very specialized in a field and who know how to fix their one thing and some of the adjacent things to that thing. Sure. In my experience with this Western medicine, a lot of it has been in treating the symptoms and making life more comfortable for you at this given moment in time, which is not always a bad thing, right?
Lissa: Sometimes you need a painkiller. Sometimes you just need something for that quick fix right now because you need it. Right. Um, and that's just overgeneralizing of course, but for like all, all the other, what we call alternative medicine that I've tried, it's really getting to like this overall health and wellness.
Lissa: It's not a quick fix. It's a long term plan. And it's not just, like, if your knee hurts, they're not just treating your knee. They're figuring out what's happening in your brain or in your toe or whatever is going on in your whole body.
Lizzy: Right. It's really interesting to think about that in terms of, like, Western capitalistic societies and treating the symptoms creates this little wheel.
Lizzy: If I want to be cynical about it, you know, it's a big business. Obviously, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies,
Lissa: Sheesh. So, I don't think it
Lizzy: necessarily started out that way, but I think that there's some fact to that, that it's evolved into a very big business that is not necessarily incentivized to cure people.
Lizzy: It's incentivized to keep people coming back for treatment.
Lissa: But interestingly, the stat we, we open up with, like, or the, one of the stats we open up with is that this alternative medicine is a huge industry, too. Right. So that's, is that concerning in any way?
Lizzy: Ooh. Damn, that's a good question. I, I think I find it to be a positive that people are open minded and that I think people, again, this might be my own LA bias, because we know the environment we live in is definitely a bubble, but I feel like a lot of people are becoming more health conscious and wellness conscious in general.
Lizzy: Um, like we've talked about with therapy, like we've talked about like holistic wellness versus just your physical body or, you know, your energy, how you feel overall. So I think that's. And if that's what you want to put your dollars to, that's what you want to put your dollars to. What do you think?
Lissa: I, I agree.
Lissa: I think it's tough because, like, even with the insurance thing. Most of these alternative medicine or alternative healing practices are not covered by insurance. Anyway, you're just straight up paying whatever the market value is on that particular thing. So it's, it could be, both are big industries. You kind of have to use your own judgment on what you believe each treatment to be for, you know, try it and see if you like it.
Lissa: And most importantly, does it fit within your budget? Because if you can't afford it and you're going broke using all these healing methods, you know, it's just going to cause you more stress.
Lizzy: Well, and is that, that's another interesting element. It is there an inequity there in the accessibility of some of these healing modalities.
Lizzy: for people who don't have that disposable income to throw at it. Um, maybe they have insurance, maybe not, but that's not necessarily covering these things. So are these people limited to the traditional medicine options?
Lissa: Yeah. I, I mean, as a daughter of Filipino immigrants, like try telling my mom that like, I'm, I'm doing fertility treatments, but also, you know, Because not through a fertility doctor only, but I'm also doing acupuncture once a week and taking Chinese herbs and, you know, doing all these things for my health holistically, like, try to explain that to my mom, like, if she knew what I was spending.
Lissa: Right. Right. Each, each acupuncture visit that I have right now, and it's weekly, once a week, is over 200. Damn. So, so if you, yeah, access for sure. I think there's multiple layers, like the, um, the, the mentality of, is this even worth it? Right. Is it worth my money if I can't afford it? Especially if insurance doesn't cover it, why would I try it?
Lissa: Right. Right. So there's that part. Right. And then there's the, the actual. Like, cost itself.
Lizzy: Right, which, this is just so interesting, because, I, thinking of herbal medicine, specifically, Um, the, it has so much cultural meaning, For, for different groups, and I can think, uh, My, stepdad is Mexican, I, you know, grew up with a Mexican extended family.
Lizzy: And you know, my grandma would always like, I'm going to make you some herb. I'm going to heal something with some herb, that's how, it's Vicks and it's herb. Yeah. Yeah. And, but that is kind of at its truest nature, inherently a low cost accessible form of healing for a lot of these groups. I mean, the town she grew up in, they probably didn't even have a doctor.
Lizzy: The tiny town in New Mexico. Yeah. So, um, And so that's what you did, right? You develop these skills and abilities and knowledge, you know, someone in the family did, um, because those other forms of medicine are inaccessible. And now in many ways that has reversed. And then there's this other element of people exploiting those traditional forms of, I mean, traditional as in like truly traditional way back forms of medicine.
Lizzy: in order to make it trendy or cool or build a brand around something and, you know, really capitalizing on that.
Lissa: Yeah. I mean, I think it's tough because on one hand, it probably works because if it's worked for you, Like centuries, then there's something to it. And, you know, if, if some cultures keep that as their like secret, you know, healing, you know, this juice, special juice that they have, like, cool.
Lissa: Whereas other people are like, well, let's market this, make it a product. Not only can we make money off of it, but it can help people like I feel mixed feelings about that.
Lizzy: It's tough. I mean, I think that goes into the classic appropriation question if there is some kind of you know cultural Meaning to a specific group of people.
Lizzy: Yeah, and then you know, it's marketed by someone that's outside of that group.
Lizzy: So talk to us a little bit more about your experience with alternative medicine
Lissa: So I never had a background with alternative medicine. I didn't even know what it was. I just knew like, you go to the doctor, they give you medicine and you get better.
Lissa: So what led my, the path that led me towards trying alternative medicine, medicine in the last, Couple of years has been Western medicine, not changing anything for me. And in fact, and then to the point where I felt like Western medicine was making things even worse. Sure. Yeah. So I'll give one example. Um, little personal, but like, uh, I was getting frequent UTIs and I went to different doctors, uh, like my OBGYN, my primary care, um, who ended up sending me to an endocrinologist to see if it was like a hormone thing.
Lissa: And no one could pinpoint what it was. It's just like, oh, you have low hormones. Okay. So let's, uh, wait and, you know, it was, there's a lot of like, let's wait and see, and do a blood test in a couple months to see if your hormones come back and try this and try that. And then come back. And then it got to the point where it was like, okay, well you, as long as it's not affecting your day to day lifestyle, like, and I'm like, what does that mean?
Lissa: They're like, are you in pain? Like, can you, I'm like, no, I'm not in pain. I can like walk just fine. It's a bitch, bro. Yeah. Like, and I'm like, okay, no one wants a UTI. Yeah. Like, so it got to the point where it was like, I was taking antibiotics a lot. And. It would get rid of the thing, but then I felt like the antibiotics were having this longer term negative effect on me.
Lissa: This whole
Lizzy: cycle. Right, so it was like a whole
Lissa: cycle. So then I finally went to like a naturopath who was like, well, let's try to get your body working again because of, because of the low hormones, the low estrogen, and the thin, like, lining that you have, that's what's causing this. And so it was more like, alright, let's, but then it was like, let's get you on all these supplements.
Lizzy: Right.
Lissa: There was a point I was on like. eight, nine, ten different supplements. And I was like, So these are more natural remedies and it's a more long term plan, but it's also just more Trying to get to the root of the problem at least, that was at least the differentiator, but it was like, It's all trial and error from there, but how much money is spent along the way?
Lissa: For sure, for sure.
Lizzy: I think a key point that you hit on, which I've experienced myself and I've seen a lot, is that in traditional medicine, you go to a doctor, you have a particular issue. One, it's treatment of the symptoms, but it's also like feeling like you're, Concerns are not really being heard, being taken seriously.
Lizzy: The intensity of them is just like not registering. Um, and so I think a lot of people feel like they have to fend for themselves. Right. Like. I am not being advocated for, I have to advocate for myself in this traditional healthcare system, but I also have to take it upon myself to try to find some kind of solution.
Lizzy: And, you know, so, uh, an example, in the past few years, my, uh, my dad has had a lot of health challenges. And he was just like dramatically losing weight. Like, I mean, scary, you know, and was seeing all of these doctors. No one was figuring it out, but at the same time, he basically just couldn't eat food. So he was trying to take different supplements to just figure it out.
Lizzy: And it turned out that one of the supplements was actually exacerbating the issue. Um, it wasn't, you know, completely causing it, but it certainly didn't help.
Lizzy: But at the same time. I understand the sentiment of like, I can't eat. I need food. I need to do whatever I can because a doctor can be like, yeah, come back in three months or, or even a month.
Lizzy: All right. What do I do in those next four weeks going through my day to day when I'm just trying to survive?
Lizzy: You know? And I think I have noticed a different caliber of care with some of the alternative medicine. experiences that I've had. One, that it's, you know, more holistic, typically. Um, but, The attentiveness
Lissa: has
Lizzy: been a different experience.
Lizzy: Those two things
Lissa: I agree with, like, that it's holistic, right? Like, if I come in, um, cause I've been having stomach pains, they're not just like asking what did I eat, right? It's like, what has your sleep schedule been like? Or what, you know, have you been exercising? Um, do you have pain in any other areas of your body?
Lissa: Like, there, that, the, the holistic part, right? Love it. And, but also the attentiveness, right? It's because it's more of a complex puzzle to solve than just, oh my elbow hurts and it's tennis elbow and I need to rest it. and take ibuprofen. Right. Right? Like it's, it's more holistic because, you know, maybe it's my wrist that's tight, that's pulling on my elbow.
Lissa: Right. But like, so you got to like go, go further. So I think that that part of alternative, alternative medicine, 100 percent great and believe. I just wish, I wish there was more integration. I think it's happening more and more, but like, I wish there was more integration between like Western medicine as we call it and.
Lissa: either Eastern or broaden that to alternative medicine practices. Right. So
Lizzy: like as you're going through your fertility journey. So fertility is another one, yeah. You're having these kind of two dual
Lissa: responses. Yeah. So this is actually interesting. So, um, I've gone through one round of IVF. We're on kind of a pause right now while other things are getting figured out.
Lissa: Um, it didn't It didn't, uh, pan out. We weren't able to get eggs from that first cycle, but interestingly, the fertility doctor that I go to here in Los Angeles, she recommended me to my acupuncturist because they're working in tandem together to figure out what's going on with my body. Right? Why can't I conceive naturally?
Lissa: And so, It was interesting, though, because throughout the process, they, they're working together because they both have their different approaches to try to get me, my body working properly in order to have a kid. Like, I'm working properly. My brain is fine, everything else is fine. But they're working, they're working together, but throughout, throughout the process, they've disagreed on things.
Lissa: They, they've had different takes on like, you know, my acupuncture. my acupuncturist will say like, let's take three to six months of acupuncture herbal teas to get your hormones working on their own again, right? Whereas the fertility doctor's goal is to get you pregnant. So she's like, well, we can wait and wait and wait.
Lissa: But if your goal is to get pregnant, let's, Right. Do injections and let's start it up again. So then, yes, they're working together and it's great. I love that I have both of them, but the ultimate decision still comes to me of like what I want to do. I don't have a clear recommendation of this is, this is the plan.
Lissa: Right, right. Let's start this next cycle next month. There's no, I have to decide. You know, I'm 37 going on 38. I don't know. I don't know if I'm making the right choices, so I just have to go with my gut feeling. Right. That's challenging. So that's fertility, but like, if you, if you expand that scope to other areas, like the stat about cancer patients, um, using alternative medicine as complementary to, um, whatever, chemo, radiation, those types of therapies.
Lissa: Because, um, I, I wish that. That it was more included in the system itself. Right. So where it's covered by insurance or like these, it's complimentary. Like you have both, you get it. You get attacked, attacked is the wrong word, but attacked from all angles. Like you get the Eastern side, the Western side, the alternative side.
Lissa: The, yeah, you have kind of a, like a super team. Yeah. Yeah. Super wouldn't just be great to have like pocket doctor, like, is there an app for that already? Probably something. There's probably an app, right? Like, you have your one go to doctor who talks, like, I guess that's your primary care physician. Yeah, that's a whole other story.
Lissa: Yeah. You know, like, that holistically evaluates you, knows what you're up to, and it's better diagnoses and better treatments for things.
Lizzy: You know what, that made me think of something when you were talking earlier about kind of the specialist system, which is, is important, right? You know, in a traditional medicine, you're not going to know everything and all the nuances of every system of the body, et cetera.
Lizzy: But that often is disconnected from that holistic view. And I think some of that is because when we look at like research, clinical studies, they tend to be very specialized, and there's, there are fewer that look at the broader health system on a particular Disorder or disease, you know, like if you have Stomach issues.
Lizzy: It's there aren't going to be as many studies if if any that look at the effect of exercise on that, right? But the reality is those things are all important right the entire system of your health affects the kind of individual subsets of it. Um, I had that experience. I get chronic, incredibly debilitating migraines.
Lizzy: Um, I've seen many, many doctors and I had to go to my neurologist and be like, well, is it my hormones? Yeah. I used to have these hormones from my IUD. I stopped. That's when everything peaked. Yeah. And he was like, huh, Well, yeah, there's some research on that, and it could definitely be that, but it's not my specialty, so, you know, we can try it.
Lizzy: Um, and, you know, same thing with, with diet, with exercise, with sleep. All of these things affect your entire well being, and yet they're not necessarily considered when you're going in to sleep. to get treatment for a very specific issue.
Lissa: I, I do hate that where it's like, a lot of times doctors look for one cause of a thing.
Lissa: Mm hmm. When it could be just like a mix of three, four, five, six, seven different things that culminate, you mix it up in a pot, and that's why you have a migraine, right? For sure, for sure. So I, I understand triggers, like there's, there's definitely things that affect I'm not going to rewrite medical books, right?
Lissa: I'm not even in the medical field. So, um, but we are not doctors. We're not doctors, but it's not medical advice to people bullshit. But so, um, I, something I did want to talk about when it came to alternative medicine is, um, I've been doing a lot of these therapies in the last two years related to fertility, but my overall health, now that I actually have, more discretionary income for it and, you know, I'm more open to it.
Lissa: I definitely haven't ditched Western medicine. Like, that's my go to if something's wrong. But I, I do want to talk about the, the, the time and energy that, Um, I spend on it, I guess. Because, like I mentioned, um, I've been going to acupuncture straight for one year now. Mm hmm. Weekly. And price tag is one thing, but it's a whole thing.
Lissa: Uh, you, you kind of have to eat, right? My doctor tells me to eat, my acupuncturist tells me to eat before an appointment, otherwise you might feel nauseous.
Lizzy: Right.
Lissa: And, so I, I one time didn't, because I was just like, eh, I think I'll be fine. Mm I almost threw up after, and I don't know, like, I don't understand the science or, you know, what is behind it, but like, I didn't feel great.
Lissa: So, now, when I go to acupuncture, I make sure to get up early enough to have a meal. Sure. But not too close to acupuncture because you're lying down with needles stuck in you. Like, I don't want to eat right before and lay down. So, it's a whole process that I have to proactively think about. Um, I have to think about what I wear because you have to have access to the points in your body.
Lissa: You can change there, but like, so it's all these things that take a lot of time and energy and I don't know that if I was working, uh, full time, nine to five, would I be able to keep up with my acupuncture schedule? I, I, I can do it now because I'm self employed and I, Carve out the time for it, but I don't know when I was working Right like hella if I would have been able to do that.
Lizzy: I think that's brings me to a kind of adjacent point That's really interesting is I think people put a lot of inherent implicit trust in the traditional medical system Typically until they have an experience that that breaks that trust right or like you you found this wasn't working This may be my perception, but I think I'm not A lot of people don't necessarily give these alternative, uh, medicine kind of options the same amount of the benefit of the doubt, right?
Lizzy: And so, So, the investment, both financially, time, is judged differently, um, and I think some people, the takeaway is like, okay, if I go and do this, but what if it doesn't work? And then, what a waste. Yeah. Whereas, that could happen with anything. That could happen with a medication. I mean, I've spent months on a medication and been like, yeah.
Lizzy: Yeah, that ain't it. Yeah, that's not for me. I'm just coming off of a migraine medication right now Have you ever went to a restaurant and had a
Lissa: bad meal? That was a waste like I guess yeah, but now you know to never go there again and to never recommend that to anyone else again, right? But do you think
Lizzy: people judge the costs of these?
Lizzy: So there's there's the absolute cost in terms of finance or in terms of time or resources or whatever I feel like there's like a multiplier put on that for these relative to traditional medicine You Because of some of the judgments around it.
Lissa: Yeah, a hundred percent. I think, so, you take a quicker fix, right?
Lissa: Like you have a headache and you take Tylenol or, uh, Advil. More likely than not a headache will subside in a couple of hours. If you have a headache and you decide you want to try, um, acupuncture or whatever. Massage or essential oils or
Lizzy: something, yeah.
Lissa: The It, you might not get a quick fix, you might get a, um, a longer term fix if you do it consistently in the long term, but that's going to take going how many times, right?
Lissa: Right. And so because it's going to take longer to see results. If any, right? There's no results promised, but it, it, and it's also, so it's hard to know that there's an actual result and it's probably going to cost more in general. Right. Financially, time, energy, in general. Definitely, there's going to be, like, I think people, uh, there's a higher bar.
Lissa: To whether or not someone would be willing to spend on something because it's like to protect themselves financially. Like it's a risk. It's a big risk. It's a bigger risk. I mean, it kind of
Lizzy: equates to like, um, in financial terms, like a long term investment horizon where, you know, if you're buying stocks, it's going to go up and down, right?
Lizzy: But over the long term, most likely it will trend upward. Yeah. But if you're judging it from a short term lens. You're, you might be like, fuck, you know, and you, and then you freak out.
Lizzy: I think that's so interesting, and it speaks to a mindset about health in general, which, you know, thinking of so many of these things, you know, acupuncture for sure, um, energy healing, massage, yoga, chiropractic.
Lizzy: Uh, you know, I think these are just some that, like, I've, I've experienced, meditation, there are practices, they are not like you go and have a procedure and it solves an issue, it is a practice that you integrate into your life, that often is more preventative. than, you know, healing a, then reactive or, you know, healing a, a particular symptom.
Lizzy: And I think that again, kind of speaks to that mindset of our society, which is quick fix. Yeah. And I don't have time for this. I'm not willing to invest in my health.
Lissa: You can't, bro, right. Like who has time to figure out the root of a problem when you just need to get by for today? Because you know, you have, you know, You have to get back to work.
Lissa: You got to get back to the family. You got to pick up the kids from school. There's so many things in the way of taking care of your own long term health and quality of wellness and health that you're willing to give up sacrifices as long as you can function. Right.
Lizzy: And if anyone, I know we, you and I have both experienced this, if you have ever experienced burnout, you know that that is a false belief that that short term fix is going to benefit you more in the long run.
Lizzy: I, I actually just read something really interesting about that, and it was a good reminder for me, uh, of really, like, maintaining the process and not getting so caught up in the short term. Because ultimately, like, for example, the perfect example, I had a presentation due today. I was up till 3 a. m. last night working on this.
Lizzy: Is that why you didn't text me back? Probs. Probs. And in my head, I'm like, this is a short term sacrifice for something that's really important to me. At the same time, In the long run, the detriment of that sleep debt or getting out of my routine or just the mindset of that self sacrifice is going to catch up with me eventually.
Lizzy: Like if I continue to do that and not prioritize my sleep, which I've actually been good at overall,
Lizzy: but if I continue to do that, it will catch up with me and not just set me back, you know, a few hours, it'll set me back a month or two months. And I think people very commonly. Make that mistake and I you know speaking from experience because it's
Lissa: it's hard to quantify right Short term long term.
Lissa: It's hard to quantify. You don't know until you're Until you're fucked. And burnt out. Yeah, absolutely. Until you're burnt out. Until you run yourself to the ground. Exactly. And so I think, I think that's really interesting to point out because it's really less about like, you know, putting one thing off one time here and now because like, let's be real, that's life, right?
Lissa: It's life, yeah. You have to deal with those ups and downs, like what you have time for and what you don't. But it's the compounding of them. One turns into two, turns into four, turns into eight, right? It's not like Compound interest. Yeah. Compound losses. I don't know how to add. I don't know how to multiply.
Lissa: Um, but like, it's that. Like, if you start putting everything off
Lissa: Like you said, you're not just going to be, you're not just going to take one weekend to catch up on sleep. It's going to take you like three months to catch up on sleep. I was just reading about this.
Lizzy: Yeah, the effect of, of sleep debt. I wish I had this stat in front of me.
Lizzy: I'm going to butcher it, but I just looked into this last week and it was something like missing one hour of sleep. Sets you back 10 days.
Lissa: Oh my god.
Lizzy: It was wild. It blew my mind. It was more than a week, for sure. Per hour of sleep debt.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Wild.
Lissa: Sleep,
Lizzy: I, I love my sleep. I love it, I just don't love me back.
Lissa: So, aside from the financial cost of these alternative medicine practices, what would you say, Are the other costs.
Lizzy: I think there's a big social cost in terms of being judged. I think there's a stigma around a lot of these. Yeah. Earlier
Lissa: I said some people. Consider these things woo woo.
Lizzy: Yeah, right, which is I think now considered like a derogatory term.
Lizzy: Yeah Yeah,
Lissa: I would say it's
Lizzy: derogatory. Yeah, it's judgmental. So I think they're just like you said with your mom She's gonna be like the fuck are you doing? Um, I think there's that social rejection which speaks to our base Psychological needs of belonging right? We all want to belong and be accepted And people are gonna be like what?
Lizzy: They're going to laugh at you. What are you doing? You're wasting your money. Uh, because there is a stigma around a lot of these things. Um, and I think that's kind of the biggest social
Lissa: cost that I see. So like, obviously there's a spectrum, right? Like, you tell someone you do yoga and they're like, Man, I should do that too, because I, I need to be more flexible or whatever they think yoga is for.
Lissa: Um, if I tell people that I, you know, That I used to go to an energy healer. Yeah. Like woo woo. That's for sure. And I'm like, no, but if you don't, you either get it or you don't.
Lizzy: And so I think that's another interesting component of this kind of Western versus alternative dichotomy is as I was doing some research for this, a lot of it comes down to what is irrefutable evidence in studies.
Lizzy: Right? And I am a very rational minded person. I put a lot of value in, in science and academia and all that kind of thing. Um, but personally, I'm also aware that there's so much that we as humans cannot understand and cannot quantify, and that science changes over time, and what we know to be true now was not what we knew to be true a hundred years ago.
Lizzy: So, for me personally, I don't need to have irrefutable, scientifically proven in a lab evidence of something. to be open to it, um, because I also think, why not? If it could, it won't hurt. If I feel like there's something positive, and then that also leads me to the placebo effect. Let's say there's not, you know, actually at its base form a benefit to energy healing,
Lizzy: But the placebo effect of you believing that there is has scientifically proven to be true to have physiological benefits. And so, Why not? The act of doing something that you feel is positive for your body has just as many benefits as the effects of that
Lissa: act. I mean, and that's kind of like what you, what, what the, what you would call the placebo effect is not actually a placebo effect.
Lissa: It's actually, it is exactly. Yeah, exactly. That's like you believing can change the way your body…
Lizzy: Absolutely. 100%.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Right. And so To me, I think there's, who cares if you think this is going to benefit you and you want to take the time to have this space and experience for yourself to put your own energy and intention into healing.
Lizzy: Yeah. I see no downside. Well,
Lissa: I do want to put an asterisk on that because like we mentioned a lot of at the beginning of the episode, what. We define as alternative medicine field, acupuncture, yoga, chiropractic, energy, healing, ayahuasca. I don't think we mentioned like things like that. Right. Yeah. Um, even cannabis, I think there, it can easily go the wrong direction.
Lissa: Did you hear about, you know, during the pen, I mean, you heard about like, you heard, you heard about. people during the pandemic thinking that bleach, drinking bleach was going to prevent them from getting COVID because, you know, some, some president back then mentioned it and other people like latched on.
Lissa: There was even a family in Florida who made a business out of it. Like they were selling bleach to like drink. And like, they were so they're the way they marketed like They had so much conviction in it that they actually made money from it and were able to sell it. And so that's where I worry, right?
Lissa: Because if this stuff is not approved by medical boards and if it's not approved by insurance, like, how does one know which remedies, therapies, practices, are worth trying and not going to harm them versus the ones that will absolutely harm them.
Lizzy: Yeah, that's a good point.
Lissa: I guess common sense, but like sometimes, you know?
Lizzy: Yeah, sometimes you're just looking. You're, you're a desperate or you're, you don't know who to trust. I mean, that's a whole other story of what is truth and what is not. And, you know, that raises a really interesting point.
Lizzy: Should these things be regulated? Right. How do you judge, especially, you know, I think that's kind of the premise behind doing these scientific studies is to come up with that backstop of evidence, but that can leave something to be desired and then how do you judge for yourself?
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: I'm not drinking bleach. Y'all. I'm not doing it
Lissa: Nope. All right. So let's, let's get to wrapping this up to the 20 cents segment. So 20 cents is the segment of the show where both Lizzy and myself, Lissa, get 60 seconds to give our two cents on today's topic. Whether we think it is a net positive or a net negative, where does 20 cents come from?
Lissa: You get the opinion of two dimes. Two dimes. Alright, Liz, you are first up on the clock. Is alternative medicine worth it? 60 seconds starts now.
Lizzy: Alright, for me, alternative medicine is worth it. I personally have, uh, I use acupuncture, I get massages regularly, um, um, I have had some fascinating experiences with medical marijuana, and meditation, a whole bunch of stuff, yoga, etc.
Lizzy: And the benefit has been significant in my life. And I don't think I have personally incurred that dramatic of costs relative to the benefit. And then I also kind of, to my point earlier, feel like if you feel like this is beneficial to you and want to put your time and resources into it, than it is. It is by nature of that.
Lizzy: So for me, alternative medicine is a net positive.
Lissa: You always have extra time on the clock.
Lizzy: I'm efficient. I am efficient. Because I talked so much before that. I give my whole case already. All right. What about you, Lissa P? Is alternative medicine worth it?
Lissa: All right. So. Alluding to what I said earlier about the integration of traditional Western medicine with alternative medicine and including Eastern medicine.
Lissa: I think that I. I'm 100 percent net positive on using them in a complimentary way. Like one doesn't replace the other. Um, if it's something that obviously needs a quick fix, needs research studies to back it, um, needs to be covered by insurance, like all those reasons are reasons for me to go to like, Right.
Lissa: But if it's long term healing that I want to do for myself, and even in desperation where nothing else is working, I'm going to try these therapies as long as they're working. and not going to harm me in the long term. So no bleach for me, but overall alternative medicine, net positive.
Lizzy: Nailed it. That's a critical point.
Lizzy: I'm going to add that into mine.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: I'm going to add it in integrative approach. I'm not forgoing traditional medicine. I broke my ankle a couple months ago. I was not about to heal that with some herbs, but.
Lissa: Net positive for both of us. Cool. Now remember, this is what we think at this moment in time.
Lissa: Can't nobody make that decision but you. So what do you think is alternative medicine worth it?
Lizzy: Hit us up. Let us know what you think. DM us on Instagram at Net Net Podcast or email us at hi at net Net Podcast. Dot com. And if you wanna follow us individually, here's where you can find us.
Lissa: I'm at wealthforwomenofcolor on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram.
Lizzy: And you can follow me on Social @live_well_lizzy on Instagram and TikTok
Lissa: All references, statistics and resources mentioned can be found in our show notes. This podcast is for educational, informational, and. Entertainment purposes only and should not be constituted as financial advice or medical advice.
Lissa: Remember to always do your own research, consult a professional as needed, and feel empowered to make your own decisions.