Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of celebrating holidays. From traveling to visit family, to decking out your home with festive decorations, holidays can cost money. But the costs are not just financial—there are emotional and time costs too. Find out how you can celebrate meaningfully without breaking the bank or losing sight of what really matters during the holiday season!
Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of celebrating holidays. From traveling to visit family, to decking out your home with festive decorations, holidays can cost money. But the costs are not just financial—there are emotional and time costs too. Find out how you can celebrate meaningfully without breaking the bank or losing sight of what really matters during the holiday season!
Main Topics
00:00 Introduction
00:59 Running the Numbers Segment
06:28 Personal Experiences
18:50 The Costs of Holidays
22:18 Managing Family Expectations
26:42 Stresses of the Holidays
31:06 Handmade Gifts
32:49 The Commercialization of Christmas
39:10 Decorations and Traditions
41:14 Our Favorite Holiday Traditions
44:03 20 Cents Segment
References for Statistics
https://finmasters.com/holiday-spending-statistics/
Lizzy: The holiday season can be a fun time for a lot of families, but it can also cost a lot of money. So is celebrating the holidays worth it? Let's talk about it.
Lissa: Welcome to Net Net with Lizzy and Lissa, where we analyze hidden costs and empower you to make your own damn decisions in life. Each episode covers a different facet of life, and at the end of each episode, we each give our takes on whether we think something is net positive or net negative.
Lizzy: I'm Lizzy, a strategist and consultant with almost 20 years of experience in finance and investing.
Lissa: And I'm Lissa, a personal finance expert and an accredited financial counselor. We're best friends who talk about money-
Lizzy: And everything else.
Lissa: Is celebrating the holidays worth it?
Lizzy: Well, first up, running the numbers on holidays.
Lissa: According to FinMasters, Americans spent 929.5 billion on holiday-related purchases in 2022. I think it's safe to round that up to a trillion?
Lizzy: A trillion dollars.
Lissa: A trillion-dollar industry.
Lizzy: We need a sting for that. For these big industries.
Lissa: Yeah. We need a sting. A trillion-dollar sting.
Lizzy: All right. Well, on average people spent $833 on Christmas in 2022, and 586 of that was spent on gifts, whereas the remaining 247 was spent on decorations, cards, candy, and food. And that's something I think people don't always account for. It's not just the gifts. It's all the other crap.
Lissa: Yeah. Everything associated with the holiday. Well, Halloween is the second-most expensive holiday, followed by Valentine's Day.
Lizzy: Interesting.
Lissa: Yeah. Very interesting.
Lizzy: And according to Statista, approximately 85% of Americans celebrate Christmas.
Lissa: Well, but we know there's more to life than numbers and statistics, so let's get into it. Is celebrating holidays worth it?
Lizzy: All right. First of all, who do you think would say that it's not worth it? I feel like at first blush, this to me was a no-brainer, with the exception of maybe some people who don't really have a family that they're connected to or maybe don't have a community like a religious group or something with whom they celebrate these holidays. But what are your thoughts?
Lissa: I think there are people out there who can see right through the consumerism aspect of it and may or may not participate in their own ways in different levels, and rightly so. Rightfully so. I think the way it's centered around expenses and spending more can be damaging to people's finances, especially in a society where a lot of people don't even have enough for an emergency fund-
Lizzy: For sure.
Lissa: ... right? And then you're not being required to, but you feel the pressure from society to participate in these holidays, which cost money.
Lizzy: For sure.
Lissa: So, yeah. I do think there's a subset of people, and yeah. This is no judgment either way. We're going to get into it. I do celebrate many different holidays, but that doesn't mean I subscribe to all the different elements of it, and especially when it comes to spending money.
Lizzy: Right. So a couple things to level-set. We're referring to holidays in general here, but much of that is going to be centered around the holidays, as in Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's, that kind of period of year.
Lissa: Yeah. What we're in right now. Right now is Q4. The two holidays in terms of spend are Christmas and Halloween in the US, and those two fall in Q4, and then you got Thanksgiving, so just add to that, and then probably New Year's.
Lizzy: Probably New Year's. Yeah. Yeah. So this, however, includes Valentine's Day, it includes Memorial Day, Labor Day, 4th of July. We're just kind of-
Lissa: What about all the days for people? Like Mother's Day, Father's Day, all the other days?
Lizzy: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think-
Lissa: St. Patrick's Day.
Lizzy: ... any reason to celebrate, which kind of leads me to the origin of holidays. I did a quick little deep dive on this. So holiday comes from Holy Day, and the origin-
Lissa: Huh.
Lizzy: ... of holidays-
Lissa: Who would've thought? Who would've thought?
Lizzy: ... they emerged from religious celebrations, right? So initially, holidays were sacred, really. And there sure may have been this celebratory component around food and togetherness, but it certainly wasn't the commercial thing that we know it to be today.
And I was a little interested in when holidays became so commercialized. And so a couple little stats that I found were that marketers began to see Christmas as an opportunity in the 1840s, and so that's when you started to see Santa and all of these advertisements and popping up in stores. So the first in-store Santa appeared in Macy's in New York City in 1862.
Lissa: Dang. Santa's been around that long?
Lizzy: Yeah. Santa's been around for a minute. And so that was kind of during this shift in economy, industrialization, where there's now department stores and more larger-scale businesses, shipping became a different thing, and cities started to emerge in a different way. So I think that's an interesting thing of how the global economy or national economy shifted and how holidays followed suit.
But another interesting one was that former President FDR actually pushed Thanksgiving up a week in 1939 because he hoped that it would stimulate a pre-war economy. So 1939, the very beginning of the US's involvement in World War II, and he was well aware that this is when the money gets spent. We got to stimulate this economy.
Lissa: Wow. That's so interesting.
Lizzy: Kind of interesting, right?
Lissa: Very interesting. And then probably over the last century or so then, it's slowly and slowly just become more commercialized. And I think I keep shitting on the consumerism part of it, but I think for good reason, because I do think it is what a lot of people associate with joy and with families and the stuff that we really as humans care about.
Lizzy: Sure, sure. Which is an interesting line. So I'm curious, what was your experience and relationship to holidays growing up versus now? And then I'll share mine.
Lissa: Yeah. So I grew up celebrating all the holidays, and I think that is a mix of my cultural background, my family background, and also, I did grow up going to church. Christian church. And so definitely there was that element of come holiday season, around Christmas, it's Christmas trees and we have extra church services. We are singing holiday hymns and stuff like that.
And so I think that's kind of where originated. But just from being part of society and my family celebrating all the various holidays, we've kind of just fell into the culture and celebrate everything that's pretty standard across the board.
Lizzy: Makes sense. For me, similar. I would say that holidays were an extra-big deal in my family. So my dad's mother, her name was Merle, I didn't know her super well. She passed away when I was 16 and then was kind of old throughout most of my life, but she is kind of famous throughout my extended family for making holidays magical.
She had an incredible sense of style. She would find the most perfect, obscure, unique, thoughtful thing exactly for you. People rant about her gift giving and how elaborate and tasteful and beautiful her home was for any holiday. And so my aunt kind of inherited this ability and so did my mom because my mom grew up around her since she was 13.
So holidays were always a really big deal in my family, really as a way of making an ordinary day magical. That's how I always saw it as a kid. So even Valentine's Day, my mom would always do something special for us. In fact, funny story-
Speaker 3: Story time.
Lizzy: ... for Halloween, my mom went and tried to find these cute little Halloween decorations for the women in her office, and she found a few that she really liked. They were super cute, but they didn't have very many of them, and she's like, "I want to keep these ones for myself, but I just got these little pumpkin ones for these other women, so maybe I could make a little felt bear and put clothes on it to match." And I was like, "Mom."
Lissa: That's a lot.
Lizzy: "You don't have to do all of that."
Lissa: You don't have to do that.
Lizzy: But that's the thought and the care, and it's just a way of celebrating making an ordinary day magical. And then there was the religious element. So growing up in the Mormon church, holidays were a big deal, not just for the hymns and the religious significance, but they were a communal thing, so we celebrated in our church until I was 10 years old.
So I definitely have that thing where in my life holiday or not, I like the opportunity to make an ordinary day a big deal and celebrate life. And so that's kind of how I see it today.
Lissa: Yeah. That's spot on. If you had to describe what I was trying to say earlier, that's what I feel. Yeah. Because even though I grew up around the Christian church, that's not why we celebrate Christmas at all. I am a gift giver at heart.
Lizzy: Yes, you are, girl.
Lissa: It's really for bringing family together, for the most part, I would say. Because when else would you see everyone, especially people who don't live near you?
So it's the effort we all make once a year, once or twice a year, is a good kind of cadence to see everyone, catch up, because life happens. You can't keep up with everyone, especially in your family throughout the entire year-
Lizzy: For sure. For sure.
Lissa: At least not everyone can.
Lizzy: Okay. So then we are on the same page pretty much in how we see holidays today. Obviously, that's just our point of view, but let's talk about the costs.
Lissa: Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Lots of costs.
Lizzy: Lots of costs. So we hinted at some of the financial costs, certainly for Christmas, but even 4th of July, having a barbecue, inviting people over, cleaning your home, getting everyone together, giving gifts, sending cards, any little detail, decorations, fireworks or whatever, it all adds up.
Lissa: Yep. 4th of July is a good example. I would say that there are other holidays that probably don't cost as much money out of your pocket, like, for example, I think for Mother's Day or Father's Day, we would go out to lunch or dinner and then maybe get a gift for a person, and that costs more money than an average day, but I love how you described it as making an ordinary day magical, right? If every single day was magical-
Lizzy: It'd be ordinary.
Lissa: ... it would be ordinary, right? So it's just making specific days stand out. So I think there are some holidays around the year that are more like that. For me, Valentine's Day is kind of one of those too, that I don't make a big fuss to spend a lot on.
Lizzy: Same. Yeah.
Lissa: But if I have a partner, if I have someone special, then you have a little bit of something extra magical that day.
Lizzy: For sure. For sure. Are there any holidays that you can think of where you don't spend any extra money that you actively celebrate?
Lissa: Maybe something like a St. Patrick's Day. A lot of times, I end up being in Vegas on St. Patrick's Day because it's the same time as the March Madness Tournament, where that's my yearly trip, because I celebrate it inasmuch as wearing a little bit of green, and I already have green.
Lizzy: Or-
Lissa: What?
Lizzy: I cook on Patrick's Day-
Lissa: Oh, yeah.
Lizzy: ... for the past several years. So I spend money for that, but I like to cook, and it's one of my favorite meals of the entire year, so. But even that for me is not a significant cost, right? That's probably the most low-key of all the holidays that I actively celebrate.
Lissa: That you actively celebrate. There will be holidays, like you mentioned, 4th of July, that some years, I do something, and some years, I don't. So maybe it averages out to being very little extra cost.
Lizzy: Yeah. I would say for Memorial Day or Labor Day, I rarely do a thing, but often my family's barbecuing or something, so there's definitely food cost that I'm maybe not fronting myself, but it is being spent. But those are the ones that I don't often proactively plan something for.
Lissa: Does your family do anything around Easter? I ask because it's tied to-
Lizzy: Yeah. As a kid-
Lissa: ... Christian-
Lizzy: ... definitely. And so now, the way it's moved in my family is that my mom has six kids. All six of us are grown up now, and so the next generation are the ones who get celebrated and get the gifts and stuff.
So my mom definitely does Easter baskets for all the local kids, and I think she even sends something to my distant nieces and nephews. And sometimes, we'll do some kind of dinner or something, but it's more low-key for sure.
Lissa: All right. Let's move up in rank. So we talked about holidays with little to no cost or very, very reasonable cost.
All right. Next level. What about holidays where you're spending a little bit more? Not extravagant, but you are spending more this week or this month compared to other weeks?
Lizzy: Yeah. For my family, that would definitely be 4th of July. I don't spend very much on that, but-
Lissa: You just show up and have some barbecue?
Lizzy: I just show up and participate. But we always do a pretty sizable barbecue, and my dad gets lots of fireworks, illegal fireworks. And fortunately-
Lissa: Why are you tattling?
Lizzy: ... that has not included a fine ever in my life.
Lissa: Yeah. That would be a significant cost.
Lizzy: Yeah. And then often, we'll go to the beach, so 12 bucks for parking or whatever, but that's probably the middle tier, just because something we do every year, there's for sure going to be a good amount of people. There's always good food, like steaks and alcohol and whatever.
And then for me personally, I would say Halloween is probably my mid-tier. It's my favorite holiday, and I definitely always spend mostly just on my costume. I've wanted for my whole life to just have Halloween parties. We did one one time and it was really fun. Yeah. Mostly just on costumes, I guess, but I don't really hesitate because I love it. What about you?
Lissa: So I guess Halloween too is probably mid-tier for me on the years that I make a costume, because for the most part, I do making costumes too, versus just buying a store-bought one, which still takes your buying equipment, fabrics, or whatever. And then I would say for decorations, maybe I'll buy a new decoration every year and just add it to the rest that I have, so I don't spend a ton there.
The holidays that I'm thinking of now where I spend more money than average are probably, like I mentioned, Mother's Day, Father's Day earlier, but not because of what we're doing on that day, but because ever since I turned 18, I've lived away from my family. So any holiday like that where I make the effort to go be with my family, like Mother's Day to go be with my mom, that takes travel costs for me and time.
So that's where it starts to add up. If we lived right around the corner, it would just be like, "Okay, let's go to dinner." And that's obviously an extra cost, but when you add travel onto that-
Lizzy: Right. We didn't even account for that, and that's my own naivety because I live close to my family, but that is probably the biggest cost for a lot of people is traveling.
So I have two older brothers that one I only see at Christmas because of that cost to bring himself, his wife, his two kids. Another who lives on the East Coast, I may be see twice a year, but I don't know if they're coming this year because it is a major, major cost at a time of year that's already so expensive. And so I know they budget year-round for it, but it is a big thing.
Lissa: I noticed for the first time how much I spent on holidays in 2020. That was the first time that I did not spend Thanksgiving or Christmas with my immediate family. I was alone. You brought me food. You came to-
Lizzy: I did. Yeah.
Lissa: ... bring me food because Liz is local, and so her family had food. She brought me some. But that was the first time, and it sucked. I was really sad. But then I was like, "Dang, I got a couple extra a hundred bucks because I don't got to drive anywhere or fly anywhere."
And for me, lucky enough, my family lives in California. California is a big-ass state, we know that, but you can still drive places. So sometimes, I'll fly, sometimes, I'll drive, but still not as crazy as people who have to fly across states, who have to fly internationally, so yeah. That adds up for a lot of people.
Lizzy: Right. And you also have to factor in pet care, which we've talked about on our episode on pets, so that's another big factor.
But so I think this is a good segue to move beyond the financial costs of the emotional and social costs, right? So it can be a really good thing to spend time with family. It can be a really stressful thing to spend time with family. And then the flip side is you may be celebrating holidays but not be able to see your family, and so it can be a really lonely time too. What has your experience been?
Lissa: Probably all those. I just told you how it was really sad to not be with my family that one year. But the years that I am around them, I love my family. Actually, you have one of those families that does get together every Thanksgiving and Christmas. But interestingly, most of my siblings and my mom, they all live in Northern California. I'm the only one in the immediate family that lives in Southern California, so there's the expectation for me to travel.
I don't know if I said I was going to host Christmas, if they'd all come, because instead of one person having to pay for travel, it'd be 10 of them. So I don't even know. Maybe I'll try that someday and see what happens if they come, but yeah.
I would say that that expectation has weighed on me in certain years, partially tied to the expectation itself, not feeling like it's fair, but moreso on the financial side, because it's like, "Okay, if money's tight, yet I'm the one that has to go, are you guys going to pitch into my flight?" No, you're not.
So I will say I've had those feelings in the past too, but which is interesting, right? Because we choose to do this, I choose-
Lizzy: I know.
Lissa: ... to celebrate, but sometimes it comes with, it's not all rosy all the time. There are those elements. Lucky for me that it's not like there's anyone in my family that I despise seeing, because I think that's a big cost too.
Lizzy: That's a big thing. Yeah.
Lissa: Because some people, it's some families and some people go out of their way to be with family for the holidays, they spend a lot of money to fly the whole family somewhere, and to be around some people that they don't even like being around.
Lizzy: Definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, that's a common thing. I think there's a film about that with Vince Vaughn, isn't it? It's a good one, but yeah. I don't have that experience either. I genuinely love my family, love to be around them.
But I will say it is stressful more around the planning, gift-giving side, particularly Christmas. But I have a very niche feeling that I get, which is super honest, that all of my older siblings are married and have kids, and my younger brother's younger, he's not there yet. But I get this feeling where I'm around all my closest people and I still feel alone because I don't have my own individual family unit.
And so that's something I've navigated for years and I've worked through it with my therapist. It's just a reality, right? I don't have my own little unit that I am doing Christmas morning with kids or a partner.
And it's funny because, like I mentioned, now the gift giving has moved to the next generation, right? So we have such a big family. We don't do gifts for everyone. It's just a cost burden. And so it's not really about the giving of gifts. It's just about that experience and participating in that.
And I'm like, "Oh, I don't have someone to do that for or someone who's doing that for me in the same way," or kids to do that for. So that would be my very specific emotional experience around some of these holidays.
Lissa: Now that you bring that up, so last Christmas was the first Christmas that I actually had a partner that I brought to the family. I've spent every other holiday season, even if I was dating someone, they didn't get to meet my family. It never got that far. And so that was very, very nice.
But similar to you, man, let me tell you about an emotional cost of seeing family. When you are single year after year, and you get asked every holiday, "All right. When are you going to get married? When are you going to do this?" And it's like, "Bro, don't you think if I wanted that, it'd happen already?"
Lizzy: Yeah. It's not for a lack of trying, y'all.
Lissa: Yeah. Or there are people who don't want to-
Lizzy: Who don't want that.
Lissa: ... get married, or-
Lizzy: Don't want kids.
Lissa: Yeah. Don't want kids, but yet they're asked and bugged all the time-
Lizzy: A lot of pressure.
Lissa: ... of, "When are you going to bring us grandkids? When are you going to bring us more kids in the family?" It's like, "I traveled all this way to come be with you guys to get annoyed by you guys?"
Lizzy: Right. For you to be all up in my business?
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Yeah. Or I mean, I did have that for several years where I was in a partnership and then broke up a month before Christmas, so that was-
Lissa: Having all the questions.
Lizzy: ... all the questions. Yeah. Everyone, "How are you doing?" And I do not recommend a breakup right before Christmas, y'all. It is not a pleasant time.
Lissa: Could you just have sat that one out and just not shown up? Nah, huh?
Lizzy: No. They were understanding. I managed it. My family's cool, but yeah. But that actually brings another element into the equation, which is you do have a partner, and obviously he lives in, or he's from the UK, so it's a-
Lissa: Oh, man.
Lizzy: ... little different issue. But managing two families.
Lissa: We haven't figured this out. I mean, we haven't figured this out.
Lizzy: Yeah. Who do you spend the holidays with?
Lissa: So Thanksgiving is actually an easy one because they don't have Thanksgiving over there in the UK, so obviously that's my family. We haven't figured out what we're doing for Christmas this year. I don't know. Do we split up? Or do we go to his? Do we go to mine? I don't know. We haven't-
Lizzy: And that's so hard. Especially with many families, these are people you often only see one time a year, so it's like you're going to forego a whole year of that to be with your partner's family and vice versa, but then split up and you're not going to enjoy that together? And it's just there's not enough you to go around. It's really challenging.
And then scheduling, even if they are both local, it's I have this for the first time in a while for Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is usually pretty small in my family, just the local people. But my dad's family's having a big thing with all the cousins. And so I'm like, "Okay. I want to go to that, but that means I'm not going to be at the one with my mom, and that means it's going to be extra small. Is she going to be sad?"
Lissa: Appeasing people. That's a huge-
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: Yeah. Is celebrating holidays worth it? Arguably, for a lot of people, it is. There's a lot of great things around it, but the stress of trying to appease everyone, if you care about them, right?
Shout out to those of you who don't care what other people think. I try not to, but at the end of the day, I'll still feel bad if I miss that event or miss that thing, because you're picking who you like best, right?
Lizzy: That's what it feels like.
Lissa: That's what it feels like.
Lizzy: Yeah. That's what it feels like. And that's challenging and it's stressful. Yeah. Or even just being around a lot of people for days on end or whatever and having to be on, it can be really draining for sure.
Lissa: Yeah. I didn't think of that too. Life is life. People are going through stuff all the time. Like you had a breakup right before Christmas last year, and it's you don't stop to think that for some people, they just might not be in the mood this year-
Lizzy: For sure. Yeah. And then you have to try to fake it because you don't want to bring other people down. Or do you just not go, but then is that worse?
Lissa: Yeah. And then does that cause a whole ripple effect of people thinking things for future years? I don't know.
Lizzy: It's tough.
Lissa: There's a lot to it.
Lizzy: There's a lot of emotional stuff. And that's not even getting into the stress of-
Lissa: Celebrating?
Lizzy: ... celebrating, of gifts or hosting. Let's say specifically those two, I think, have their own unique stressors.
So let's say for Christmas specifically, or the big, big, big holidays, people are planning months in advance. You've got all these people on your list. Are they going to feel bad if I don't get them something? Are they going to get me something? Is this getting them something enough? Here's my budget, but I really want to do more. It is stressful. Are they going to like it? There's a lot that comes with that. The moment I got off hormonal birth control was on Christmas morning.
Lissa: What?
Lizzy: Because I'm a very creative person, I will often make gifts for people, both because I have so many people in my life that I care about that it's a more cost-effective way for me to give 30 people something. But also, I enjoy the process and whatever.
So one year, I was like, "All right. I'm going to do something with clay." I have no experience with clay. This was, I want to say, 2012. And I was trying to make these little statues for people, didn't really know what I was doing, and they all cracked. And I was going to bring them to my mom's on Christmas morning, I was with an ex, and they were all messed up.
And I knew intellectually that wasn't the point. It was that I tried to make them for them, but the perfectionist in me, I started crying, I burst into tears, I was freaking out. And then I had this moment of clarity. I was like, "Oh, I am hormonal. This is my birth control. I am not being reasonable right now." And I got off it forever.
Lissa: Yeah. Wow.
Lizzy: But, yeah.
Lissa: Yeah. So I think that was an anomaly. That was probably more the hormones than the broken gifts.
Lizzy: But I think people do get so stressed out of this isn't the way I have it in my head. Is this enough? What are they going to think? Are they going to return it? Are they going to like it? Did I get them enough presents? Which right now, that sounds silly.
Lissa: It does. Yeah.
Lizzy: But it feels really real when you're in that because you really just want people to know that you love them.
Lissa: Yeah. I guess I had some stress too. I'm a gift giver. I've talked about it in many episodes for whatever, we're not going to get into why.
But I started creating a gift budget every Christmas of it started out $500. Now, I'm probably more at $1,500. And there'll be 30, 40 people on this list. Some people, I'm just getting something small, but I have to allocate those funds to different people. And then every year, I'm deciding, is this person on the list or not? Are they still important to me in that way? Or did I make new friends that I want to give something to?
And interestingly, it's I don't know why I put that pressure on myself because it's not like everyone I give gifts to gives me a gift back. I don't care. I don't expect it. I don't want it. But it's I go through this whole process of picking and who I want to give something to and then figuring out what I want to give them. Do I have the budget for it?
And then I also compare it to what did I get them the last three years to make sure I don't get the same thing? When no one's going to remember. No one's going to remember that I got them bath bombs and face masks. They'll accept it gladly again.
Lizzy: Yeah. And then for me, it's the research, right? So then I'm like, "Okay. I want to get them something like this." And then I get into a million rabbit holes because this is such a me, ADHD issue, where I'm weeks of trying to find a $12 gift for someone or whatever. And so I am learning gradually to put limits on that, but it's challenging.
And I have the same thing. For example, we have two very close guy friends who I don't think have ever gotten me a Christmas gift. I don't care at all. I don't care. That's just not who they are. But every year, I go through this, I'm like, "Okay. Can I? What's my budget? Should I? I should. Now one of them lives far away," so I'm like, "Oh, that means-"
Lissa: You've go to mail it?
Lizzy: "... I have to ship it," which is something that's really hard for me to do. But I go through this every time.
Lissa: Well, I had my Christmas gifts figured out by June of this year.
Lizzy: Bitch.
Lissa: No. For real, for real. So let me give you some backstory. During the pandemic, so three years ago, I had a lot of extra time on my hands. I was like, "I'm going to make people gifts." So I learned how to make coasters, so I made a bunch of coasters. I used old album cover art-
Lizzy: Mm-hmm. I got those ones.
Lissa: ... and put them in. And so I made coasters for people. This year, inspired by Liz, who had taken pottery in the past, I took pottery with a couple of friends just for fun. This was back in March, April. And then we liked it so much that we took it again. It was a month-long course.
And then I was like, "All right. This time, the second time, now that I already know how to make pottery." And this particular studio, they let you go in an unlimited amount of times-
Lizzy: Yeah, it's dope.
Lissa: ... during the month to make as many pieces as you want to practice. And you get to use the cheap clay, but it's fine. It works.
Lizzy: Yeah. For sure.
Lissa: And so I went so many times and I made so many pieces, little candy bowls and plates. They're all in my kitchen and I need to figure out who I'm giving them to, but yeah. I was like, "That's going to be my Christmas gifts to all my family this year is little candy bowls. Maybe I'll put candy in them," but they're handmade, so-
Lizzy: That's dope. That's actually really good.
Lissa: Yeah. So I don't even have to stress this year about Christmas gifts.
Lizzy: Yeah. See, that's why I like making a gift, because it's like, "All right. Everyone's done," and I enjoy the process.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Yeah. I don't know if I'm-
Lissa: And if you don't like-
Lizzy: ... going to do that this year.
Lissa: ... it, then you're heartless, because I made it for you with my hands. My blood, sweat, and tears.
Lizzy: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's one of a kind.
Lissa: Yeah. So, yeah. Christmas gifts are an interesting thing. The stat at the beginning, that was interesting to me that 85% of Americans celebrate Christmas, because there's a lot of people with different religious backgrounds.
Lizzy: Right. Which I think actually speaks to the commercialization of it and the secularism where it originated as a religious holiday and the meaning of that has really shifted.
And I think maybe cultural pressure, right? If you think you're a kid and you're either agnostic or you have some other religion that doesn't celebrate that, and meanwhile, at school, all your friends, I know that's shifted in what could be celebrated in school. But you're not blind to the culture of where predominantly Christian society, where Santa's everywhere, right? And I think-
Lissa: Santa's okay.
Lizzy: ... a lot of kids do that.
Lissa: A reindeer's okay. But Jesus and the Virgin Mary are not, right?
Lizzy: I think that's the case for a lot of people, right? The religious part of it is kind of separated from the reindeer, the snowman, the candy canes, you know?
Lissa: Everyone can enjoy it in their own way.
Lizzy: Yeah. I mean, that's even how I celebrate it, right? People in my family are still religious and have that, but for me, the meaning of it is just family. And I don't know. Winter.
Lissa: Well, okay. We've gone through a lot. We've gone through obviously great things about it, which they go without saying. Anyone who celebrates holidays, you kind of, for your own reason, know why you do. The spirit behind it, the feelings you get, the connections you make. All great things. And then we talked a little bit about some of the not-so-great things like the financial costs or the pressures or whatever.
I'm curious. I know we've talked about this off camera before, but what is your take on how early these things are marketed? Or when are they marketed? Is it right?
Lizzy: Drives me crazy.
Lissa: Wrong? Okay.
Lizzy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have specific thoughts on this, and a lot of people do, but earlier this year, it was July 1st, I was in a craft store, and there was Halloween stuff, decorations everywhere. And I was like, "This is not okay."
Lissa: So Halloween stuff on July 1st, Halloween is on October 31st. That's a full four months.
Lizzy: Yeah. Four months in advance. Well, and then even yesterday, I was running errands with my mom, and she wanted some black roses for her Halloween decorations because she decorated the house.
And we went to two, no... Yeah. Two different craft stores and couldn't find almost any Halloween decorations a few weeks before Halloween, because everything had been converted to Thanksgiving and Christmas. So, interesting. I think it's just to get people to spend even more, because then your spending's spread out over four months.
Lissa: Yeah. But does it work? So for Valentine's Day, which is February 14th, when do they start selling Valentine's Day-
Lizzy: I think in December.
Lissa: Yeah?
Lizzy: Mm-hmm.
Lissa: Is that too early? And I don't know if it's just my perception that every year it gets earlier and earlier? Or is that real?
Lizzy: It's my perception too. I don't know if it's real.
Lissa: But then when can it stop? Obviously, if Halloween is starting to be marketed in June, in May, then we've gone-
Lizzy: Yeah. I used to think it was the major holiday in advance, but 4th of July hadn't happened yet, so that was what was so extreme to me. I know it was a few days away, but I was like, "Come on, y'all." And so-
Lissa: It couldn't wait. You couldn't wait.
Lizzy: They say a lot of people feel strongly. I'm not going to put up a Christmas tree until after Thanksgiving.
Lissa: Yeah, I don't either.
Lizzy: But some people that love-
Lissa: The day after? Cool.
Lizzy: For sure. Yeah. Often the day after, right? And it's tough because Halloween, my favorite holiday, I'm like, "I probably want to maximize the time with this holiday-"
Lissa: But not until October 1st.
Lizzy: Generally, yes. Although I had this exact thought. So this is a very specific thing. I have a good amount of decorations, nothing too crazy, but I grew up in a house that's decorated for every holiday, right? They're all in storage right now, but every year, I kind of go through this thing of what's the point? Which is the practical part of me versus the magical part.
So I was in Target yesterday. All my Halloween stuff is in storage, and I'm like, "Do I need a Halloween mug to enjoy all October every morning when I drink my coffee?"
Lissa: Of course.
Lizzy: Well, so this was my thought process. I was like, "Well, I have several, they're in storage." And then I was like, "Well, it's already October 13th, so what's the point?"
But then I had that thought, I was like, "Ah, I should have bought it and started earlier in September," which would've violated my unspoken rule that Halloween starts October 1st.
Lissa: But then you can use it year round or next Halloween as well.
Lizzy: I know. I know. But these are the things, so I didn't do it.
Lissa: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Huh. Yeah, it's interesting. So obviously, we're filming this ahead of the holiday season, so we're a little ahead. I wouldn't call it the Thanksgiving Christmas holiday season yet when we're filming this-
Lizzy: Yeah. But it's approaching.
Lissa: It's approaching. But so what I do is I have a bunch of Christmas sweaters. This is actually not mine. This is Alan's. All of mine, I have five of them. Christmas sweaters that I wear all Christmas season.
They're in storage somewhere. I only bring them out for the season. I couldn't find them. I couldn't find them to film this episode. I was pissed, and I'm like, "Oh, no. Am I going to have to buy new ones?" Because I only use them once a year as it is, so it's not like I get a lot of per-usage value out of them. I guess I could wear them all year round, but I'm like, "Oh my God."
For most things, like decorations, you can use over and over and over again. But actually made me curious, for your family, because you guys do it really nice, like you mentioned your aunt, do they use the same decorations and stuff? Or is it different every year?
Lizzy: No. It's the same decorations. It's kind of added to every year. But the cool thing is that there's a history to them now, so you look forward to it every year. So my mom put up Halloween decorations, and I'm like, "This was there when I was an infant."
I remember seeing this my whole life. She has this one Jack-O-lantern thing that was made with pennies, or that for Christmas, there's stuff that we made as kids in kindergarten. She has these huge glass bulbs for a Christmas tree that she's had for almost 50 years. So that's cool.
And then each year, she'll add a few new things, so you get to see there's kind of some depth to it, but yeah. So you kind of see the progression. She has these new Halloween decorations I'm not cool with. Not cool with them.
Lissa: Why?
Lizzy: Because they are rats. Not cool. The entry table is entrails, like fabric entrails and these disgusting rats. I like spooky. I don't like terrifying and disgusting.
Lissa: That's funny, because for Halloween, the neighborhood I live in, they do Halloween really great. All the houses participate because there's a lot of young families there. And so I always take walks around the neighborhood. I see all these cool ghosts hanging on the trees and witches and skeletons and spiders. A ton of fake spiders.
But it's hilarious. I'm like, "I don't have my own decorations because I have tons of spiders in my house already."
Lizzy: You don't need them.
Lissa: I don't need them.
Lizzy: I got them.
Lissa: I don't need them.
Lizzy: Done.
Lissa: So, yeah. No rats, no spiders for me. Yeah. That's a no. That is a no.
Lizzy: No-go.
Lissa: All right. Quick-hit questions on holidays. What is your favorite holiday tradition in your family?
Lizzy: Oh, that's a hard one.
Lissa: All right. How about per season? First half of the year and second half of the year?
Lizzy: I don't know that I have that many unique traditions. I would say first half of the year would be making corned beef and cabbage-
Lissa: Yes!
Lizzy: ... on-
Lissa: St. Pat's.
Lizzy: ... St. Patrick's Day. Possibly my favorite meal of all time. Up there. Top five for sure. And so I've carried on that tradition.
Second half of the year, I don't think that we have many super-specific traditions. I would say the only one that comes to mind is that we have homemade lasagna every Christmas Eve. And I don't love that more than Halloween, but it's a specific family thing that we always do, and my family's done it for 40-plus years.
Lissa: Nice. Nice.
Lizzy: Yeah. What about you?
Lissa: Yeah. As I ask you that question, I don't really have one for the first half of the year, so I'll just go two in the second half of the year. One is every Christmas, we do a gift exchange, but we also do a white elephant, which is fun, because we don't do a gag gift one.
So for those who don't know white elephant, it's a game where everyone brings a present if you're going to participate, and you draw numbers. At the end of the day, you bring a gift, but you leave with a different gift. That's-
Lizzy: And you don't know what you're going to get.
Lissa: And you don't know what you're going to get.
Lizzy: You're opening a wrapped gift.
Lissa: So I always think that that's fun. That's a tradition I love. And then another tradition, which is partial, because my family is not all fans of the same NFL team, but majority of us are 9ers fans.
So if it's Thanksgiving or Christmas and we're like, "All right. It's going to be 9ers Christmas this year," then everyone will wear a 9ers jersey, and you don't have to worry about what you're going to wear.
Lizzy: Oh, that's cool. That's a good one.
Lissa: But there's a couple that are not 9ers fans, but we dominate.
Lizzy: Oh, you know what? I have a better one. My mom makes Christmas cookies every year. I used to help, my nieces now help. And there's at least eight different kinds, possibly more. It's these cheesecake ones, sugar cookies, thumbprint with the jam, fudge, oatmeal scotchie that you only get this time of year. And it's a huge platter, and they're amazing. That's probably-
Lissa: Nice.
Lizzy: ... the best part of Christmas.
Lissa: And that happens the day of or the week of?
Lizzy: She makes them, I would say, the 23rd or something, the 22nd, and then they are the dessert for the week.
Lissa: Nice. Nice. All right. 20 cents?
Lizzy: 20 cents. Let's do it.
Lissa: 20 cents is the segment of the show where both Lizzy and myself, Lissa, each get 60 seconds to give our two cents on today's topic, whether it is a net positive or net negative for celebrating holidays. Where does 20 cents come from?
Lizzy: Because you get the opinion of two dimes, y'all.
Lissa: Two dimes. All right. Liz, is celebrating the holidays worth it? 60 seconds on the clock.
Lizzy: Yeah. For me, it's totally worth it. I love holidays. I've loved them my whole life. And like I mentioned, that opportunity to make an ordinary day special in any way. So not just holidays, but I kind of resort to that type of thinking most of the time anyway. I will say that I have shifted a little bit as an adult to where the practical side of me does battle with it, like I mentioned, with buying a Halloween mug, and so I see another side to it that I didn't see, of course, as a child.
But, yeah. I think it's fun. It's a time when I don't typically mind spending that money, although I think it's important to be mindful and be aware of the things that stress you out and cause some of those costs. But for me, it is worth it. Net positive.
Lissa: Net positive for Liz. Yeah. Not surprised.
Lizzy: Yeah. Come on. Come on, now.
Lissa: Yeah. This is probably an easy topic. Easy topic.
Lizzy: All right. What about you?
Lissa: So for me, net positive as well. I'll just make it that easy. But I will say, not to get too philosophical about it, I really love how you mentioned the magical part versus an ordinary day, because I think that sums it up.
I don't think a person has to subscribe to what society tells them an important day or holiday is because they ram Valentine's Day cards down your throat starting in December. I don't love that. But I will say when I walk into a store and I see holiday festive things, I do feel warm. I don't know how to describe it.
So, yeah. For me, it's a time where I get to spend with family and it's a unique part of the year, breaks up the year, so yeah. Without it, I don't know. I'd probably find other ways to have that-
Lizzy: Makes sense.
Lissa: ... same thing if the holidays weren't there. But so it's already built in. Why not?
Lizzy: Why not?
Lissa: Why not?
Lizzy: All right. Before we wrap, I want to share a special holiday memory that just came to me that is an example of that magic.
So when I was a little girl, we did not have a lot of money. And I think I was six years old, and I got an American Girl doll for my birthday, which is in November, and that they were $100 at the time, which is a big deal for my family. And it was kind of a rite of passage because my sister had had one growing up, so that was already like, "Whoa."
And my best friend had one too. And so that year for Christmas, our moms spent weeks making all kinds of handmade little accessories, like cookies out of clay, and a little cookie jar, and gardening tools, and all kinds of stuff for this doll universe that they couldn't afford to buy, but also it was a fun thing for them to do.
And so woke up and had all of this stuff and it just blew my mind. And that was the kind of special care and thought that went into it, and that's probably my favorite childhood Christmas memory.
Lissa: Aw. That's so sweet.
Lizzy: Good stuff.
Lissa: Yeah. Good stuff. Glad you got that in the episode.
Lizzy: Yeah, yeah. Good times.
Lissa: Yeah. Shout out, mom.
Lizzy: Shout out, mom. She's the best.
Lissa: Well, remember, this is what we think right now in this moment in time. We are both net positive for celebrating holidays. Just don't let it break your budget-
Lizzy: Facts.
Lissa: ... you know?
Lizzy: I keep skipping that line. But remember, nobody can make that decision but you. So hit us up, let us know what you think. Are holidays worth it? DM us on Instagram @NetNetPodcast or email us at hi@netnetpodcast.com. And if you want to follow us individually, here's where you can find us.
Lissa: I'm @wealthforwomenofcolor on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram.
Lizzy: And I'm @live_well_lizzy on Instagram and TikTok.
Lissa: All references, statistics, and resources mentioned can be found in our show notes. This podcast is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, and should not be constituted as financial advice. Remember to always do your own research, consult a professional as needed, and feel empowered to make your own damn decisions.