Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of changing careers. Many people grow tired of their jobs and want something new. Others base their career choices primarily on financial opportunities. Regardless of your motivation to change careers, is taking the leap worth it? Lizzy and Lissa discuss when to pivot, how to weigh the costs (and benefits), and why some career changes lead to success while others stall out.
Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of changing careers. Many people grow tired of their jobs and want something new. Others base their career choices primarily on financial opportunities. Regardless of your motivation to change careers, is taking the leap worth it? Lizzy and Lissa discuss when to pivot, how to weigh the costs (and benefits), and why some career changes lead to success while others stall out.
Main Topics
00:00 The Job Change Phenomenon
01:08 Running the Numbers Segment
04:22 Our Job Counts
09:29 Costs and Sacrifices of Career Changes
13:49 Emotional and Social Impacts
18:22 Balancing Passion and Practicality
24:13 Balancing Passion and Stability
26:13 The Dilemma of Job Hopping
27:28 Chasing Promotions
29:37 The Cost of Overcommitment
31:51 Arbitrary Deadlines and Burnout
33:36 Planning a Career Change
36:22 Exploring New Career Paths
44:45 20 Cents Segment
References for Statistics
https://www.zippia.com/advice/career-change-statistics/
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/nlsoy.pdf
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/fastest-growing.htm
https://www.weforum.org/stories/2023/05/workers-multiple-careers-jobs-skills/
https://www.apollotechnical.com/career-change-statistics/
https://novoresume.com/career-blog/career-change-statistics
https://www.luminafoundation.org/campaign/todays-student/
Lissa: Apparently around 70% of all working-aged people are actively looking for a job change.
Lizzy: Dang.
Lissa: That's a lot.
Lizzy: That's a lot.
Lissa: Not happy in your jobs, huh?
Lizzy: All trying to leave.
Lissa: Today we are talking about is changing careers worth it?
Lizzy: Let's talk about it.
Lissa: Welcome to Net Net with Lizzy and Lissa, where we analyze hidden costs and empower you to make your own damn decisions in life. Each episode covers a different facet of life, and at the end of each episode, we each give our takes on whether we think something is net positive or net negative.
Lizzy: I'm Lizzy, a strategist and consultant with almost 20 years of experience in finance and investing.
Lissa: And I'm Lissa, a personal finance expert and certified financial planner. We're best friends who talk about money.
Lizzy: And everything else.
Lissa: Is changing careers worth it?
Lizzy: First up, running the numbers on changing careers.
Lissa: Based on a study of baby boomers, the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that the average American holds 12 jobs throughout their lifetime, but half of those jobs are held between the ages of 18 and 24. So a lot of switching.
Lizzy: When you're young and then you stay the course.
Lissa: Makes sense.
Lizzy: All right. The average age when Americans change their careers is 39 years old.
Lissa: Ooh, that's next year for me.
Lizzy: Switch it up.
Lissa: When it comes to industry, workers in the public sector have nearly twice the median tenure of those in the private sector at six and a half and 3.7 years respectively. This doesn't surprise me because government jobs are typically known to have more stability, more security, and so people want to stay there.
Lizzy: And I think less salary mobility, so you're not going to switch as much.
Lissa: Right. Because you already know what those pay grades are, those scales.
Lizzy: Interestingly, more white workers have been with their employer for at least a decade compared to Black, Hispanic, and Asian workers. White workers are as much as 32% more likely to stay at a company for at least 10 years compared to people of color.
Lissa: Looking ahead, the World Economic Forum's Future of Jobs Report in 2023 says that two fifths of the core skills workers have today are going to be disrupted by technological change by 2027. I don't know if I read that right, but what it basically says is the skills you have are going to be taken over by computers, potentially.
Lizzy: Robots are coming.
Lissa: Robots, right?
Lizzy: 40% of skills.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Sheesh.
Lissa: So I can only imagine that this would probably force more career changes.
Lizzy: Yeah. Sure.
Lissa: We all know there's more to life than numbers and statistics, so let's get into it. Is changing careers worth it?
Lizzy: So let's start out by addressing some of the reasons that people might need to change careers or choose to change careers.
Lissa: I think money, opportunities.
Lizzy: Mm-hmm.
Lissa: I think some people are forced into it. Don't have a choice.
Lizzy: Their skillset becomes obsolete or they're laid off or-
Lissa: And just take whatever's available.
Lizzy: Maybe their career is too demanding and they have kids or something, they have to make a lifestyle change.
Lissa: Mm-hmm.
Lizzy: Certainly, some people choose to change, right? They find something they're more passionate about and end up making a choice.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: Hopefully, that's something desirable.
Lissa: Yeah. Sometimes it's not always about the opportunity for money. It's the opportunity for a better lifestyle, quality of life, get some time back, get some energy back, or you have more time to give to a job so you switch in that way.
Lizzy: Yep. Yeah.
Lissa: Yeah. But yeah, I think that's basically everything.
Lizzy: Okay.
Lissa: You said pursuing a passion.
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: Mm-hmm. Sounds like your style. That's Liz, if you guys don't know Liz-
Lizzy: That's my style.
Lissa: Is go change a career because of a passion. Me is probably, ooh, there's money in this.
Lizzy: A fundamental difference.
Lissa: Yeah. So lots of reasons people change careers. So were you surprised by the statistic that it's an average of 12 jobs? That's for baby boomers, by the way.
Lizzy: Interesting. I feel like for baby boomers, that feels high to me. Nowadays, I feel like-
Lissa: It's more.
Lizzy: People switch all the time.
Lissa: Mm-hmm.
Lizzy: That's definitely different than my personal experience. Although now thinking, how many jobs have you had?
Lissa: Probably more than that. I guess, job to me is different than changing-
Lizzy: Careers.
Lissa: Industry, right?
Lizzy: Industry. Yeah.
Lissa: Because let's say you are in marketing, but you work at three different companies in the course of your life of different marketing jobs, I think that might be counted differently than what the statistic said.
Lizzy: Agreed. Yeah.
Lissa: That's a career in marketing, but you might've had three different jobs or companies.
Lizzy: Agreed. Yeah. I think we're talking about a whole shift. New skillset.
Lissa: New skillset. Yeah.
Lizzy: New environment. New industry.
Lissa: Yeah. But individual jobs, yeah, I've definitely had more than 12.
Lizzy: Oh, already?
Lissa: Well, because you think about ... Don't put me on the spot and try to name them. From the first job I ever had as a kid.
Lizzy: Yeah. All right. Let me count.
Lissa: I used to type for this dude. I don't even know how he knew my mom, but he couldn't type on the computer, so I would take his notes and type them. That was a job. I worked at a community college bookstore. That was a job. I was a tutor at UCLA. That was a job. I worked at the faculty center. Yeah.
Lizzy: Okay. Interesting.
Lissa: Yeah. We should have done our list of how many job changes.
Lizzy: I have eight total jobs if you count three times when I was a founder.
Lissa: Okay.
Lizzy: But not that many because I stayed at one for 10 years.
Lissa: Yeah. But knowing you're entrepreneurial ass-
Lizzy: Oh, it's going to be much more.
Lissa: Yeah. It's going to be much more. By the time you leave this earth, you're going to have an average of I don't know how careers.
Lizzy: It's going to be a lot. For sure.
Lissa: And that's how I see my life going too. So this is actually interesting. I actually worked at Google. That's why I brought this thing. For over a decade, which I think is unheard of these days to be at a company for over a decade. And the last three, four years I've shifted into finance, personal finance, and I recently became a certified financial planner. And so I have a mentor who's a planner and she asked what I planned to do with it. The CFP certification and I'm still working it out. I don't know if I'm going to start my own firm, if I'm going to just keep doing what I'm doing on the internet with financial education. But there's so many careers within this that I can choose.
So one thing just that she was telling me I should do as a career is ... So currently I consult on some people's social media channels like their TikToks or YouTube, and she's like, "I think you should double down on that and maybe make finance your specialty because not only are you ... You know the content landscape and how to create content, but you know the finance world." So she's like, "But you can help other advisors build their followings because they don't really know the contents."
Lizzy: Sure.
Lissa: And so that's a career, but it's not-
Lizzy: Like a double niche.
Lissa: It's a double niche. It's like something that I didn't plan for. And one other thing that she said was before I consider to start my own financial planning firm is to think about how long I'd want to do it because it's a relationship business. A lot of people who are advisors, they have clients who stay with them for decades.
Lizzy: And then often their family if they pass away.
Lissa: Yeah. Because they trust them with their money and they're building wealth and all of that.
Lizzy: It also takes a long time to build your business.
Lissa: To build that clientele. So she's like, "If you're going to shift into that career, think about it a little bit more longer term." So I'm over here thinking, there's no way I'm going to do that for the rest of my life.
Lizzy: No. You're going to be the same. You're going to be switching it up every few years.
Lissa: Yeah. So I'm going to figure out a model that works with me and my goals that maybe I could still dip into this space. I think both you and I, those stats are pretty accurate. More from the entrepreneurial lens. We're going to be shifting, jumping into things.
Lizzy: Yeah. It's interesting that we both stayed at a company for 10 plus years.
Lissa: Yeah, you did too.
Lizzy: And then started to switch it up regularly.
Lissa: Well, here's another thing. It's a privilege to be able to switch it up proactively. Because earlier I said, some people are forced into it. You get laid off, you got to take on a job, maybe in an industry you don't even want to be in. But to be able to choose to take the leap and leave this job to try this thing, whatever it is, that's a privilege because you have to have a financial cushion. Well, you should have financial cushion. You need support from friends and family. You need a lot of things to be able to take that leap.
Lizzy: So let's talk a little bit more about the costs of it. So for example, as I was growing up ... I've talked about we had a lot of financial instability. Both of my parents just worked odd jobs. Not a professional career so to speak. But at certain point my mom went back to school and we actually graduated a couple of years apart from each other, which was pretty cool. So we were in college at the same time. I saw firsthand a lot of those sacrifices. But again, it was still a privilege. She was fortunate that during that time she still worked but had additional financial support from my stepdad. But you are giving up often earning power, money in the fact that you can't work as much. Some programs like if you have to go back to school, you can't work at all. It might be a full-time program. But you're also sometimes paying to gain new skills or to go back to school. You don't always have to get a new college degree or something. Above all else time I think.
Especially if you're later in life. Especially if you have a family, you are diverting your time, you're sacrificing a lot, and that takes a lot of energy. You may have to approach this career change very slowly and trickle into it as you are navigating that. And then there's a lot of emotional toll. There's a lot of uncertainty. Can I do it? Is it going to work out? Will I be good at it?
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: So I think there's a lot of costs. It is a big, scary, brave move.
Lissa: I will say that ... Well, there were a couple of reasons I stayed working at Google for so long. One, great benefits, perks, and pay. But a big one was my comfort level. Just the thought of starting a new job somewhere else and having to learn and meet new people and be the new kid on the block and not know how the software works. Just the tiniest things scared me for a very long time. It was comfortable to stay.
Lizzy: Absolutely. Yeah. And you have to give that up and be willing to take that risk and step out of your comfort zone. I was thinking it's interesting that average age of a career change. And here's my hypothesis, I think most people when they get into their 30s, have some level of professional experience or have worked in a certain industry for a long time enough to know whether it's doing anything for them. And maybe have a sense of the long-term potential of it, or maybe they're burnt out or whatever. I also think you start giving fewer fucks when you're in your 30s. You figure yourself out more and maybe when you were 21, you didn't know what you were interested in or whatnot. And then some people may be at a point in their family life if they maybe have had young kids or whatever, or maybe they have some extra income to be able to make that shift. Maybe they're in a two-income household. So I think there's sometimes more flexibility. Versus later in life where you're like, "Well, I've already gone down this path." If you're in your later 40s or your 50s, why switch now?
Lissa: I think that makes sense. I thought you were just going to say, oh, midlife crisis.
Lizzy: Well, that too. All of those things I think contribute to a midlife crisis.
Lissa: I might've put this stat on our notes. Oh, okay. US employees are more likely to change careers after celebrating a birthday or anniversary because these are times of self-reflection and self-reflection often prompts people to make big changes in life, like a career change. So yeah. It's more likely to make this change after a birthday. And obviously that can happen any year, but maybe mid late 30s, you're on the cusp of your 40s. You're like, all right-
Lizzy: Now's the time.
Lissa: Now's the time to do something different. That would make sense.
Lizzy: It's interesting because when I think of changing careers, my instinct is that it's a choice versus being forced into it. That's very true, but that's not what I automatically go to. And that is a reality for a lot of people. And then you're even more at a disadvantage because you don't necessarily have the time to prepare and figure it out, and you maybe have to scramble and can be a harder road for sure.
Lissa: Yeah. I've known friends who were trying to go back to school, get a master's or PhD, maybe didn't get into the program, so then they had to pick up a job and then liked it and went that way. Had other friends have health challenges. A mutual friend of ours found out she was having so many health problems and then found out that she had type one diabetes, which led her to change careers and going into the nursing field after she had already gotten a master's in counseling. So that is a mix of, I guess passion, but also health related reasons to really just want to spend your time doing something very specific and purposeful.
Lizzy: And that addresses another cost, which is sunk costs. So you may have spent a lot of time, money, all of the above, resources, building up a skill set, getting your education, building relationships, and there can be the feeling like I'm throwing that all away and is it worth it?
Lissa: Well, I can see that, especially in the fields that are so difficult to get that career. So definitely medical, law. So doctors, lawyers, even the finance world. Any profession that takes a lot of years to get your education, your experience, and finally get to a place where you're making good money, it makes it so much harder to change careers. What if you're just not passionate about what you're doing anymore? You're going to be more likely to stay in it just because put all this into it.
Lizzy: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think there can be a social cost as well. I can think of someone I know who is a physician, and I think at the end of the day, all she would really want to do is run yoga retreats. I think that's her dream. And is gradually dipping her toe into that. But if that has been expected of you, maybe from your family to push you into a certain career field or you just have a level of status and all of your social circle knows you as a doctor, that can be a hard thing to navigate. Like, wait, what are you doing? You left this stable, respected career to go do this other thing.
Lissa: Oh yeah. Let me tell you about telling my mom I was going to leave Google. Granted, I ended up getting laid off so I didn't have a choice anyway. But before I got laid off, I was going to leave and it was like, "Wait. Why would you leave it?" And I'm like, "Because I'm burnt out. I don't like it anymore. I want to do something else." That's it. Period.
Lizzy: So in addition to the costs, there can be major benefits. There can be costs to staying in a career you're not passionate about or that is hard on you physically, mentally, emotionally, all of the above. There are a lot of trade-offs.
Lissa: Lots of trade.
Lizzy: Big pros and cons.
Lissa: Yeah. This is a very interesting one. I don't know. My hot take is that ... And I could be wrong. But to have a truly, truly happy life, you will at some point change careers, change industries. Liz doesn't like it. That's why she's like coughing into the mic. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You agree with me. I know you do. Because like you said earlier, a lot of your time in early adulthood or even later adulthood, you are gathering information, figuring out what you like and don't like, and that can change throughout your years of life too. Your priorities can shift, your perspectives can change. So I think you have to be dynamic. I think you have to roll with the punches. And if life calls for you to change careers, if you're able to, you should do it. Otherwise, you're going to be unhappy.
Lizzy: I have personally an interesting example of being dynamic. Not exactly what you're saying, but I don't know that I've totally switched careers because I've done a lot of things all along. So I've pretty much always worked in somehow related to marketing loosely sometimes and somehow related to finance or at the very least, one of those two things since really my first professional job. Some roles have had way more of one than the other or also added in some other elements, but nothing completely drastically different.
However, several years ago I realized I was really burnt out. I was having a hard time and I at the time was primarily just operating as an entrepreneur. I had a business doing branding and strategy for small businesses and I liked it. I was good at it. I didn't love it. And I had been saying for a long time, if I went back to the beginning, I would go into interior design. And finally I got to a point where I had to put a lot of things on hold for my health and I decided, you know what? I'm just going to do it. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to study this and make this switch.
I started doing that and it had a big cost on my relationship because I was trying to juggle so many things at once. And at the same time I found this opportunity to co-found another company and it was also exciting and a great team so I decided to put that on hold. The interesting thing about it is that's still my end game at the end of the day. I will get back there eventually, probably after this iteration of co-founding this business. But I'm coming at it from a different direction of let's go make some money first and then I'll have some freedom to do whatever I want to do.
Lissa: Yeah. Which makes sense. So interestingly, before I worked at Google, I did have a short stint at another job working at Fox Studios. And I worked for Fox Sports. In college I wanted to work in entertainment, I wanted to be in TV. I like sports. But when the opportunity to get this role at Google presented itself, I applied, I got the offer. It was a no-brainer, and I was guided and motivated by money. Because I went from a $29,000 a year salary to 55,000 and that 55,000 really within a year or two jumped up to 70K, and then it just kept going up after that. So I was guided by money. And I think you are an expert in your field now in finance and marketing and you're co-founding an investment fund. I feel like I throw that around like people are supposed to know. An investment fund. I'm sure you enjoy parts of it, but primarily guided by funding your life or what do you think?
Lizzy: That's a great question. I do not operate and cannot operate purely motivated by money.
Lissa: Yeah. You've mentioned that on the pod before.
Lizzy: It just doesn't do anything for me. So this is more about the challenge. There's big financial opportunity, big risk, potentially big reward, or it could totally fail. So there's that. Absolutely. But if it was just that I wouldn't be doing it. It's more that it's a big challenge with people I like. One of my really, really close friends is my co-founder and I find it fascinating. So it has to be a mix. I wouldn't be able to get out of bed and go do something every day if it was just for money. But there is that in the back of my head. Like okay, if this does work out, let me make this very, very successful so I have a lot of financial freedom so then I can go play. I don't have to work for money. That's the dream.
Lissa: Yeah. That's the dream. That's also a very good privilege that we've both been able to tap into and I think it's worth acknowledging that there's no right or wrong because some people ... It's how you approach it. You could say, I'm going to just deal with this stupid-ass job that I don't even like for the next three years so I could stack up my money and then do this thing, this next thing. So that's a strategy in itself. If you can stay sane those couple of years.
Lizzy: Sure. I have this conversation every once in a while because again, I'm not quite wired this way, but I really admire it. I think there are a lot of people who have a straightforward job. It could be anything. Any industry. But their job isn't an identity for them. It's not something they have to be passionate about. They go in, they do a good job and they leave it there, but it's stable. It's something they don't have to worry about or stress about so that all of their excess energy goes into their family or their passions or something like that. And that mindset, I don't necessarily relate to it. Because again, I have to find something challenging in what I'm doing, but sometimes I think that would be a relief
Lissa: To live like that. Yeah.
Lizzy: To live like that. And wow, that's probably great. And all that energy that you might put into changing careers or finding a passion, you're just spending that time and energy on things you already know you love. A hobby or your family. And so there's that mindset too, in which case, why bother changing?
Lissa: I've gone through parts like my whole self-development journey where there've been times that I'm like, no, you spend so much time at work, make sure it's something you enjoy doing and that people you want to be around. And I believe that to a degree. But at the same time, there have been many years in my career where towards the end of my career at Google, I was burnt out and I was getting annoyed by certain things going on in my department, at that point I was like, "Yeah, but let me hold off just another year or two, collect this salary even though I don't want to be here because it's a means to an end." So I can see both sides and how they play a role in people's decisions to stay in your career or change. It's really just, I think more important is being cognizant about it, being aware of it and being in control of that decision as opposed to something's comfortable, stable and it's cool, I'm fine, but what if you were offered double the salary?
Lizzy: Right.
Lissa: Would you take that?
Lizzy: I think I agree, and I think it's make sure you're choosing it. Even if you're choosing to stay, understand why you're choosing to stay. Is it because it's worth it for you and your family to not have the disruption or because of the circumstances of your life, the risk isn't worth it or because it's good enough or whatever the situation may be. I think I respect as long as you know why you're doing it and are consciously choosing that versus the alternative, then sure it's aligned with where you want and need to be.
Lissa: We might've talked about this in a previous episode, maybe on entrepreneurship. But what are your thoughts on job hopping? This is people who specifically have the strategy of moving jobs every couple of years or however often for the primary reason to raise their salary by a considerable amount.
Lizzy: So I hesitate because that's just so different from my frame of reference before I went off on my own. I wasn't even thinking about that. And so I did stay somewhere for a long time and I could have made so much more money if I left. The motivating factor for me was it was still challenging. It was still interesting. I was learning a lot and I had the opportunity to do a lot of different things. So my values were a little different, but I also just wasn't aware. Overall, I think hell yeah, more power to you. It's smart. If you can do that and navigate and move up the ladder to where you value on paper says XYZ and then you yield that the next opportunity, hell yeah. I'm all for it.
Lissa: So in my career, I had some years where ... And I know this was a privilege too, some people don't get this. So every year I had have my salary adjusted for inflation at the bare minimum. It would range from 2% to 6%, something like that. But then when I was trying to go for the big compensation jumps ... So I want to make at least 10K more, 20K more, 30K more, how do you do that? You could either job hop within your company to apply for that, I guess higher level position or you can go for promotion. And so I spent a lot of my time chasing promotions and unfortunately for me, I was in a couple scenarios where it was a moving target. And I think a lot of people have this is you're told if you just do this stuff and complete these projects in this amount of time, then we'll talk about your promotion and whatever. But it kept moving.
I'd do something and then we'd have my review. Like, "Hey, I did everything I was supposed to do and then some, so can we talk about the promotion?" And then they'd be like, "Yeah, but you didn't do this." And I'm like, "We didn't ever fucking talk about that, so why are you asking me to do that?" And so this kept going on for a couple of years until that's what really led me to take that leap because I was like, "No matter how hard I try, I'm finally going to get this promotion and get this ..." I think I did right before I left. I ended up getting ... How much of my salary-
Lizzy: Some of it.
Lissa: It was like 20, 30K a year raise, which is good. But if you think about that, it took me five years to get that.
Lizzy: If you had switched-
Lissa: If I had switched to another company and just applied all my skills ... I had the skills and stuff and found a role that fit my skills, I could have gotten that jump sooner than staying in that role. So in the same vein, I think it's smart to job hop. I do think there's a limit to it.
Lizzy: I agree. I have a history of being probably overly loyal to an employer, and so I am aware of that. And so that instinct to go way above and beyond and pour everything into a role is something I'm actively navigating with my therapist.
Lissa: It can be a good thing. It can get you very far in life, but it can also be like you're doing all this extra-
Lizzy: Yeah. It's hard for me to complain because I'm happy with the situation I found myself in, but there are certainly times when I look back, like specific moments ... Story time.
Lissa: Story time.
Lizzy: Story time. Lissa was working-
Lissa: I'm in the story.
Lizzy: You're in the story. Lissa was working in Tokyo at the Google office there for about a month and I took the opportunity to go visit but I was about to launch an internal rebrand. So this is changing the whole brand of the company I had been working at for almost two years at that point. And we had been working on this project for well over a year. And so it just happened to coincide with the month that she was there. There was no way around it. So I went to visit her. I could only go for six days, which was not that long to go that far. And I was up pretty much all night every night doing work, working LA hours and then touring during the day. It was so crazy and such a big sacrifice. And then we finally roll out the brand and two weeks later, one of the executives said, "What? We didn't approve this." Which was not true. And they rolled it all back. And then I left the company a few months later. That was a big part of it. I look back and I think this was a trip once in a lifetime. I'll definitely go back.
Lissa: Yeah, we'll go again.
Lizzy: But that experience was a once in a lifetime thing and I missed out on some of it for this job. I'm not at where I gave above and beyond. I didn't need to do all of that. And so that's a lesson that I'm learning and I think those are reasons that people get burnt out, that they switch jobs and certainly switch careers.
Lissa: Yeah. Permission to go on a tangent.
Lizzy: Permission granted.
Lissa: All right. It's related, but this tangent is like, don't get me started on arbitrary ass deadlines. Okay. So I think we've both had this, I think a lot of you guys watching this or listening to this have had this where you got to get this done, it has to be done by Friday at 9:00 A.M. otherwise blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We'll lose the client or we'll lose the deal. Well whatever, you'll lose something. And then you do it, you do all the work, you work overtime, you put your all into it, you skip your kid's soccer practice, you skip things in life. And then come Friday, 9:00 A.M. you submit it and your boss is like, "All right, I'll take a look at it." They don't even look at it until next week or something like that. Or like you said, they're like, "We didn't approve this." And it's like you did, but why did we discuss on this being the day that it-
Lizzy: Yeah.
Lissa: So I have nothing wrong with deadlines. I think they're forcing functions to keep things moving, but sometimes arbitrary-ass deadlines and deadlines in general don't make any sense and they do cost a lot. Anyway. That's the tangent.
Lizzy: Especially if they're unreasonable because clearly if you had to do all of that extra stuff to get it done, it wasn't a realistic deadline in the first place.
Lissa: Yeah. Yeah. And for what? For what? More stress and anxiety. Anyway, so it is related to careers in the sense of this is the stuff that leads people to want to change careers. When you have enough of that bullshit, you just want to leave. And so then you have to strategically plan. So let's talk about what does it take to change careers.
Lizzy: Some financial backstop typically. Whether that's a partner that is going to support you, whether that's your own savings or something. Particularly assuming that either you have to go back to school or you have to start at the bottom, or maybe it's just a career that's lower paying than where you're at now. So yeah. You need some financial backstop. So that might involve saving up for that and getting yourself into the position where you have that. I think the next part depends on the career. You need to learn about it. You need to understand the qualifications. That may require schooling or certifications. Peep our episode on certifications. Or some foot in the door. It may just require you learning how to go about it. There's searching for the job and or taking the leap. It may be going off on your own as an entrepreneur. But yeah. Then there's some job search or upstart process. And that can be long. It's not always in your control. And then there's the settling in.
Lissa: I think there's a spectrum actually. I think there could be some rare scenarios where you don't necessarily need the financial backing or cushion. I still think you should have it. Everyone should build their emergency fund, but also another fund for the career change. Don't conflate the two. That's my hot tip. But I think there's a means where you're in your current job and you can start this transition into the next one without leaving your last job or industry. And I've done this in the past before where you take night classes, you take weekend classes to upscale or you start reaching out to people on LinkedIn, informational interviews, look for apprenticeships, things like that where you can get your foot in the door in a new career, new industry without having to give up your current stability. It obviously takes more time and energy if you do it that way because you have to use your free time.
Lizzy: Well, I would support doing it that way. I guess even so depending on where you're at in your career, if you're 10 or 15 years in, there may still be when you make that transition, you may be starting at zero.
Lissa: Yeah. That's true.
Lizzy: So there may still be some financial gaps. So that's more what I had in mind.
Lissa: That's true.
Lizzy: But I do think that's one of the best approaches is to straddle both worlds for a while.
Lissa: If you can. Yeah.
Lizzy: Yeah. I think another cost as we're touching on some of the frustrations that may cause someone to change careers is that the grass is always greener. And the reality is every career has some shit that sucks. So if you think that changing careers is going to solve all of your problems or frustrations, you're dealing with people pretty much every career you could find.
Lissa: If your annoyance with one career was the people, you won't really know until you get into that new career what the people are like over there.
Lizzy: Right. Right. So I think that there's some managing your expectations of how great it's going to be. Because sometimes you don't know what it's actually going to be like. And if you're straddling both worlds, you're getting some experience or talking to people who are in that role and learning firsthand, you may get a better glimpse and you may find, you know what, actually I don't want to do this. And that's wonderful too.
Lissa: Yeah. Okay. We've talked about there's lots of opportunities for career changes. You job hop, you can increase your salary. We've talked about stability with staying with the same job. So for the people who have never even thought about a career change, there's certain fields where you just assume you're going to be there until you retire. Maybe the nursing field. There's certain fields where you're just like, "Oh, I'm a nurse, so I'm going to be a nurse." What I guess thought process would you think through to consider if this is something you should-
Lizzy: Stay in?
Lissa: Stay in or leave? Some people probably have never even thought that it's a possibility is what I'm trying to get at.
Lizzy: I think that's true. I think often you will know just because you're going to be dissatisfied. If something isn't working for you, there's going to be some level of dissatisfaction. So some of the factors to consider or to reflect on certainly your financial situation. Are you where you want to be. And that can go both ways. You may switch because you're not where you want to be. Maybe you went the opposite way. You pursued something you were passionate about and you find that, you know what? I'm just not making enough money. And I think that happens often. So I need something more practical. So that's one side. Your financial situation. Can you take a cut? Can you expose yourself to something different? Do you need to make more money? And then that's going to dictate your choices that you're exploring. What are you interested in? How fulfilled are you in your life? And that's not to say that everyone has to have this purposeful, fulfilling career.
I have that thing in me and am fortunate and have positioned myself to be able to find that. But I also grew up ... My stepdad ran a construction company and he didn't love it. And you go to work and you work a job. So there's something to be said for that, and that's a noble valuable pursuit. So are you feeling fulfilled? What is the toll that this is taking on your body, on your mind, on your mental health, on your life? Is it affecting other people around you? What is the schedule and the lifestyle that is related to your job? Checking those boxes and checking in with all the different impacts that your career has on you. You can even do a pro and con. Is it enough? And then from there, I think the hard part for a lot of people is they may know they want to change, but they don't know what.
Lissa: True. Yeah. That's a tough thing because you'll have to explore and dip your toe into things. And like you said, you don't know if it's going to turn into something more fulfilling.
Lizzy: And I think if you are looking for something you're passionate about, you can certainly try different things. You can look to your own interests and what you're naturally drawn to and your hobbies and how you spend your time. If you're looking for something practical, look up highest paying careers. There's a lot of trade school programs that have somewhat guaranteed jobs right out of the gate that pay a good level. So I think research is a big important step of this. And looking at the practical side, what are salaries for some of these jobs? What is the path to get there? Does it take four years? Does it take one year? What is the timeline and is it something that can be implemented in my current life?
Lissa: So something to add to that, I don't necessarily want to plant a seed where there doesn't need to be one planted, but this just made me ... I was on another person's podcast earlier today and I mentioned this story where I was working my job at Google and I was getting paid well. So it's more of a you don't know what you don't know story. I stumbled upon this spreadsheet where people were anonymously sharing what they were making. This was years and years ago. And it was for pay equity to make sure that we're all being paid the same. And when I looked at my comparable job, which was same geography, same job level, same team function, I was getting paid on average 30,000 less than other people.
And so my thing is, I agree with everything you just said. I agree with all of it. That most people will know when it's time for a career change. Most people will be dissatisfied or they want more money or something. But I do think there's a small percentage of people that whether you're just comfortable or whether you don't know what else is out there, they just don't know that you're capable of finding a job that frees up more of your time. That you're capable of finding a job that pays you three times as much as you're getting paid now. You're capable of starting a business if you wanted to. It's more just like, are you ready and willing to put in the time, energy, effort to get out of your comfort zone to go do it.
Lizzy: Yeah. And it's an investment for sure. We have a whole episode on entrepreneurship.
Lissa: It's an investment and it could go-
Lizzy: It's not for the faint of heart.
Lissa: Yeah. It can go south. You are putting risk where sometimes it doesn't exist but could open opportunity. So I think that too. I think some people-
Lizzy: No risk, no reward.
Lissa: Yeah. I think some people should have a career change and they don't even know it yet. That's what I think.
Lizzy: One last thing I'll add to that. This is probably specific to these passionate careers, which doesn't necessarily mean it's something that's not going to make you money. That's a misconception. But there is some element of will you regret not doing it? We have one life, we can make it what we make it. So if you are 80 and you're on your deathbed or whatever, are you going to be like, man, I really wish I went after that? It's worth considering.
Lissa: I don't have a story on the top of my head, but I love these stories when you hear about someone very successful or very happy and they're like, "You know what? My life didn't start until age 47." Or I didn't start this business until I was 52. Or I didn't change careers until I was this age. And then everything's been cool since then. So yeah, there is that element of regret, but it's never too late.
Lizzy: Right. Well, and that's the other thing I'll say is be patient. Because I think maybe you don't know right now, a lot of times these things reveal themselves to you. I think when we hear a lot of those stories, it's someone finds themselves in a situation like our friend. She wasn't in her 50s or 60s, but had this medical issue, was diagnosed with something, and that sparked the passion. It's just circumstantial. And you find these avenues, opportunities come up, life happens. So you don't have to have it all figured out right now, and you don't have to force having the answers if you know that your current career is not the one for you.
Lissa: Yeah. All right. 20 cents.
Lizzy: 20 cents.
Lissa: 20 cents is the segment of the show where both Lizzie and myself, Lissa, each get 60 seconds to give our two cents on today's topic, whether it's a net positive or net negative for changing careers. Where does 20 cents come from?
Lizzy: You get the opinion of two dimes y'all.
Lissa: Two dimes. 20 cents. All right. So this is an interesting question because remember, this is what do you think at this moment in time for your own life? Is changing careers worth it for you? Is that how we frame these questions?
Lizzy: I guess so. That's normally how we do it. Damn, that messed me up.
Lissa: Sorry.
Lizzy: All right. Well, I always think changing careers is worth it. Depending on how you define it, have changed careers a little bit in my current role, and I will do it again. I'm not doing it today, but I 100% will do something totally different at some point in the future. That's just how I'm wired. So for me, I think it's always worth it if I find myself in that situation. And for others, I think that it's part of living an adventurous life. And if you can make it work, or even if you can't, I think the experience is worthwhile. And I say, go for it. So I'm net positive.
Lissa: Net positive. All right, cool. I didn't sway your answer.
Lizzy: Yeah. I was going to answer the way I wanted to regardless.
Lissa: For sure.
Lizzy: All right. What about you Lissa?
Lissa: Is changing careers worth it for me right now, in this moment in time, I will say that I still feel like I'm in a transition of changing careers. I left my job at Google, got laid off, but I was going to leave. I was going to leave.
Lizzy: You left it first.
Lissa: I left it first.
Lizzy: In your head. In your heart.
Lissa: In my head. So I left it and transitioned into this world of personal finance, teaching people how to build wealth. And I've done it in different ways the last two, three years. I've coached people, I've ran workshops. I'm creating an e-course right now. Look out for that. And I've recently become a certified financial planner. So in the sense that I'm still figuring out what I'm going to do with this newfound knowledge, I still consider myself in the middle of changing careers. So net positive for me. And similar to Liz, this probably won't be my last career. You know what I'm interested in? This is something random. There's so many things I'm interested in. I was thinking, what if I should go back to school to learn meteorology? This is a random.
Lizzy: This bitch.
Lissa: I know.
Lizzy: This is why we're friends.
Lissa: I'm just saying, finance is not going to be the only career I have for the rest of my life.
Lizzy: Just as an example of our friendship this morning I asked Lissa if she wants to do ballet with me.
Lissa: And I said, yes.
Lizzy: And today she told me that she wants to be a meteorologist. This is why we're friends.
Lissa: But the ballet thing was funny. I was just like, "Where did you get this idea?" I was thinking, did you just hear an ad? And you're like, "Oh, let's do this."
Lizzy: Yeah. Why not?
Lissa: And then I said yes before I even asked the details of like how much does it cost? What is this going to be?
Lizzy: Obviously yes.
Lissa: Is this beginner or not? I just said like, "Yeah, let's do it. Why not?"
Lizzy: I love it.
Lissa: All right. Well, remember, this is what we think right now at this moment in time, we are both net positive for changing careers. But no one can make that decision. But what do you think? Is changing careers worth it?
Lizzy: Hit us up. Let us know what you think. DM us on Instagram at Net Net Podcast or email us at hi@netnetpodcast.com. And if you want to follow us individually, here's where you can find us.
Lissa: I'm @WealthForWomenOfColor on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram.
Lizzy: And I'm @live_well_lizzy on Instagram and TikTok.
Lissa: All references, statistics and resources mentioned can be found in our show notes. This podcast is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, and should not be constituted as financial advice. Remember to always do your own research, consult a professional as needed, and feel empowered to make your own damn decisions.