In this episode of Net Net Podcast, Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of therapy. They talk about mental health, the costs of therapy, the ongoing stigma around getting professional help, and more. Is therapy worth it? Let’s talk about it.
In this episode of Net Net Podcast, Lizzy and Lissa break down the hidden costs – financial and otherwise – of therapy. They talk about mental health, the costs of therapy, the ongoing stigma around getting professional help, and more. Is therapy worth it? Let’s talk about it.
Main Topics
00:00 Introduction: The Prevalence of Mental Illness
01:14 Runnin' The Numbers Segment
02:50 Understanding Therapy: Types and Benefits
06:58 Personal Experiences and the Value of Therapy
21:13 The Journey of Self-Reflection
21:51 Therapy and Grieving: A Personal Story
24:00 Understanding the Roots of Gift Giving
29:38 The Financial Costs and Benefits of Therapy
38:38 20 Cents Segment
References for Statistics
https://www.nami.org/about-mental-illness/mental-health-by-the-numbers/
Lissa: Did you know that according to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention, you are more likely to experience mental illness than you are to develop heart disease, diabetes, or any kind of cancer? Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. Is therapy worth it? Let's talk about it.
Lissa: Welcome to Net Net with Lizzy and Lissa, where we analyze hidden costs and empower you to make your own damn decisions in life. Each episode covers a different facet of life. And at the end of each episode, we give our takes on whether something is net positive or net negative.
Lizzy: I’m Lizzy, a strategist and consultant with nearly 20 years working in finance and investments.
Lissa: And I'm Lissa, an Accredited Financial Counselor and personal finance content creator. We're best friends who talk about money and everything else. Everything else. Everything else.
Lizzy: Alright, so first up, let's run the numbers on therapy.
Lissa: Mental illness can be attributed to $193 billion in lost earnings per year in America.
Lizzy: That's really crazy. That's the impact, the financial impact to the economy of struggling with mental illness. Yeah. But there's a personal cost to that as well. So, So, on average, without insurance, the cost of therapy is $150 to $250 per session, usually an hour, single session. That is a high cost. Yeah, because
Lissa: You can't just go one and done.
Lizzy: No, yeah. You have to go multiple times.
Lissa: It defeats the purpose. Alright, 42 percent of California therapists, which is where we live, where we're from, 42 percent of California therapists don't accept insurance.
Lizzy: Which makes it even more challenging to get the care that you may need, but the cost of that is really significant because people living with mental illness die on average 25 years earlier, in large part due to the chronic medical conditions that are caused by their mental illness.
Lizzy: So not only is it affecting the economy and affecting your earnings individually, it's affecting your larger health and your mortality. Lifespan. Lifespan. That is a major cost. Right.
Lissa: What bigger cost is there? So even though mental health is so serious, as you can just see with these statistics, a lot of people hesitate to get help.
Lissa: Why is that? Why do you think that is?
Lizzy: So I think there's a few key factors in this. One is, uh, this Over time, from a psychological perspective, humans have certain needs to get met. This is from something called Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. And the very base of this is, you know, food, shelter, safety, the basics for survival.
Lizzy: And so when we look back to prior generations, they were focused on getting those survival needs met. As you move higher up the pyramid, there's things like belonging. Um, there's things like self actualization, which is actually the top of the pyramid, which is, you know, becoming your highest and best self.
Lizzy: But until you have those lower tier needs met, you can't even begin to think about them. So that's why we often hear stories of, um, especially in, uh, marginalized groups, immigrants, people of color, how, I don't have time to think about it is a luxury to have feelings. It is a luxury to have them. Emotions and to have concern for your mental health.
Lizzy: And I know that that's something that you experienced growing up. Oh,
Lissa: yeah, we're gonna get into it in a little bit, but even just like the shame and guilt around feeling like you need
Lizzy: Sure, yeah, and it's considered a weakness. It hasn't been historically recognized as a part of your overall health. The same way that you would go to the doctor if you break a bone, uh, if you have a heart condition, that is a new mindset.
Lizzy: And so we have generations of this kind of toxic culture around mental health, especially amongst men. We hear this a lot. idea of toxic masculinity, that it is a weakness to be vulnerable, to express emotions, to even say that you struggle because you're just supposed to man up.
Lissa: Man up. That's such a toxic phrase.
Lissa: Right. Well, I want to rewind it a little bit. Based on my own experience. Yeah, so for many years. I did not even understand what Therapy meant when I heard it right because there's there's a difference between psychiatry like counseling, but also Cognitive behavioral therapy, how would you describe it for someone who is not familiar?
Lizzy: Sure? I think there there are multiple types, but in my experience it has been going into you know a session with a one on one and And navigating your own life experiences. So you're describing what happened to you that week, what happened to you when you were a child, you know, whatever comes up and you're analyzing the meaning of those experiences with regards to your overall wellbeing.
Lizzy: And so to me, the value of therapy is maybe threefold. One, it is cathartic. It is therapeutic. As we say, you have that person who is not your friend. They're not your partner. You're not dumping on them. They're an objective outsider that you can express your true and honest feelings to and just have an outlet, right?
Lizzy: So that's number one. Um, number two is that in the case of, um, like cognitive behavioral therapy, for example, they give you actual practical tools to navigate with. What you're dealing with. So this might be anxiety. It might be depression. My case is ADHD. Whatever you're dealing with, they can give you techniques, skills, and tools that we aren't typically taught in the course of our upbringing and certainly not in school.
Lizzy: And then the third piece of that going along those lines is that there are academic and scientific frameworks for how our brains develop, how our nervous systems develop, how we as humans form relationships and bonds. And the Intelligence behind this can be really helpful in understanding ourselves and understanding what's healthy and improving and growing to form more meaningful relationships and to understand, understand ourselves better.
Lissa: That's a great definition and honestly, I wish I had that when I was first trying to figure out what it was. Is it something I needed? I have a slightly different framework that I think works in supplement to that. Yeah. So when I first started going to therapy regularly, not just like a one and done, I'm gonna figure it out, or I'm gonna go and see what it's about and then, So the first time I, I consistently went was about seven, eight years ago.
Lissa: And I was in this like personal development phase. I was like, I want to figure out my life, my career. So I got a therapist and started going to therapy. And I also had a life coach. And I don't know what led me to do that. But when I started going to both of these, it became really, really clear to me what each one did.
Lissa: I think of it like this now. Um, a therapist helped me look at my past to figure out what elements of my past made me, make me who I am today and how I operate and connect with the world, with people around me because there's good and bad, right? Like I have good qualities and I'm sure I have not so great ones that inner, that impact how I interact with the world.
Lissa: The life coach, on the other hand, we were focused a lot about, all right, what am I today? What do I want today? So that I can game plan into the future. Now, of course the therapy part, when you're figuring out your past to help you navigate the present, That has an impact on your future because, you know, the more healing you do, the more processing you do, the more tools you have in your toolkit to navigate life, that's going to make for a hopefully more positive, better future.
Lissa: Of course. Whereas that life coach element, it was, it was helpful. It was helpful for me at the time when I was navigating a career change, but they don't talk about the past, right? They don't dig into your traumas and your, your life full of experiences and What makes you what you are from a psychological level?
Lizzy: I love that you brought that up because, uh, just over the past few months, I've been noticing this really interesting dichotomy, um, especially amongst people who are, uh, really interested in having a growth mindset. Um, I've noticed it even in particular amongst male friends, um, but not, not exclusively, where the The interest in personal development and the interest in growth and self improvement is incredibly meaningful.
Lizzy: This is so important. This is a huge passion. And it stops the second you get to something that is emotional, right? It is goal oriented. It is work and career oriented. It is fitness oriented. But when it comes to being really active, Honest and self reflective about your shortcomings, about your shame, about your depression, about your trauma.
Lizzy: That is considered weak or it's, uh, just no longer interesting. It's not worthwhile. And, uh, I would argue the complete opposite. I would say that, uh, hot take that until you face yourself honestly, completely honestly, and take full accountability and responsibility for healing from everything that has happened in your past and that continues to happen in your life, you will never reach your highest and full potential.
Lizzy: No growth mindset can be a replacement for navigating the things that therapy can offer.
Lissa: So, this show, we're all about looking at the hidden costs of things. We alluded to a little bit of the financial cost, but what other costs are there to consider both in getting therapy versus not? I know there's a lot.
Lizzy: Um, so, I, I think, um, Without getting personal, I think on the first level, so there's the financial cost. There's the time. This is a time commitment, not only on a, you know, weekly basis, uh, for example, uh, but this is an ongoing relationship. Uh, you also have to take into consideration that, You may not like the first therapist you get assigned to or that you meet.
Lizzy: We have both been there where you invest some time with someone and it is just not working out. They're not the vibe for you. Um, and that is really important. That turns a lot of people off of therapy completely. So you have to know that you might go into this and you may have to start this journey over with somebody else.
Lizzy: Um, so that is an emotional investment. And you also have to have the willingness to And the mental space in your life to do this work, because it can be tough sometimes. Yeah. It can really be tough. And if. You're not in that place in your life, that's okay. There's a season for everything. You may have too much stress going on, you may just be preoccupied with other things, or you may be content, right?
Lizzy: And that's, that's fine. But there is a big cost in terms of energy and resources. I think there's also a cost of socially
Speaker 11: in
Lizzy: terms of the stigma around it. What will other people think? Will they understand? Um, and that, I haven't personally experienced that. I don't know if you felt that way when you
Lissa: first started therapy.
Lissa: I think I did because I had always been goal oriented. I had always been success oriented
Speaker 11: and
Lissa: the way I used to view success was in that very narrow minded, Um, you know, work, go to school, get a good degree, work hard and succeed, right? There was no room for failure, whatever you want to consider failure, but I've redefined what success and failure mean to me.
Lissa: So I want to say when I first started. started going to therapy, I definitely didn't publicize it. I think there was a little bit of a, maybe embarrassment, or maybe not even embarrassment, nervousness of what, like, my mom would think if she found out, or does she even know what it is or what, what I would be going for.
Lissa: So I wouldn't publicly talk about it. I don't know how that's changed over the last couple years where I'll freely, openly talk about it and say, I go, and if you go, that's cool too. And if you don't want to share that, cool, but if you want to share that, let's talk about it. Cause I think so much healing, so much healing in my own journey has happened in those things that I've learned about myself by going to therapy sessions.
Lissa: Um, I don't, I don't currently have a therapist now. Guess what? The two therapists I've seen the longest in my life, both. ended up either leaving the practice or taking their own leave. Right. Of absence, which left me without
Lizzy: a therapist. Right. Which is another potential cost, right? This is an investment in a relationship that is not a certain enduring, long lasting relationship.
Lizzy: I, I, similarly, my first therapist that I really went to extensively, Ended up passing away unexpectedly. And so that's hard, right? You, you have this person who in some ways you become not reliant on, but they are a pillar in your life, um, as a confidant, as a resource, and then you have to go in transition.
Lizzy: Well, I
Lissa: think that is a hidden cost. I think for some people codependent or a dependent relationship. That's a great point. Yeah. And, you know, that's not to say. That's a bad thing. I think it's a bad thing when you can't see it, when you're not aware of it. When you feel like if you don't have therapy this week, you're gonna go out of control, right?
Lissa: Um, if you can see that and you continuously build up these tools of navigating your own life independently, then you won't find yourself in that situation a lot of the time. But, truthfully, the people who need therapy. and who are getting it, there can be that dependency. Sure.
Lizzy: That was, uh, a good friend of mine asked me, Don't you think therapy is a crutch?
Lizzy: And, uh, similar to your experience, this was person, a person who had never been, and, uh, once I kind of dug in further, realized, didn't necessarily know what actually happens, or what that experience is like, but I thought it was an interesting question, and I didn't invalidate the question, because for some people it can be.
Lizzy: It can be the only means of outlet without the motivation or drive to also work on yourself. Um, and that's just like anything in life, right? There are going to be people. that fall, find themselves in that situation. Um, but that's also not to say that navigating a serious mental illness or chronic mental illness or condition doesn't affect you, right?
Lizzy: Or that you can motivate your way out of it. Which I think is a common misconception, especially especially around things like depression. Um, which I'm very familiar with. I grew up in a household where therapy was very normalized because there is a strong history of mental illness in my family. Um, both of my parents have suffered from chronic depression for their entire lives.
Lizzy: Um, there's bipolar disorder in my family. There's alcoholism in my family. Um, and then I was diagnosed as an adult with ADHD, which, uh, recently led to my mother and my sister's diagnosis with ADHD. Um, so that has been, it's always been a thing. I never had to deal with that. Um, the stigma or the lack of clarity around the purpose.
Lizzy: therapy, uh, but it, it gives me a different experience to understand that you can be navigating these things. And it's not like you're choosing this. It's not like you're being lazy. You know, I think it's not that you're not trying hard enough. Some of these challenges are really just that challenging and you can be doing everything that you've, Feel like you can, but your brain is different.
Lissa: So you have a couple of books here for those watching on video. We like to have a little prop every episode just to kind of signify and represent what we're talking about. What do these, what do these books mean for you?
Lizzy: Well, the interesting thing, uh, for me has been to do my own work alongside my experience with my therapist.
Lizzy: So. Currently I see a therapist once a week. I haven't always. I've kind of come and gone as I've needed it. But I have a whole bookcase of books. This is just a small sample of me diving into my own life. issues, really. What I have recognized are things I need to work on, codependency, anxious attachment, trauma, lots and lots of trauma.
Lizzy: Um, and so there are things that I'm doing on my own to supplement my time with a therapist, uh, as well as journaling significantly. And that is where I've gotten the most growth because it's not just a, you know, one hour a week thing. And just like the creative process or really kind of any ideation or reflection.
Lizzy: The more that you're intaking information, the better you're able to make connections later on. Right? That's why ideas hit you in the shower, you know?
Lissa: I get so many ideas in the shower. It's the worst place because you know it already. And that's literally
Lizzy: how the brain works. I used to think that was, you know, just a funny thing until I looked into it.
Lizzy: That your brain is processing all of your inputs in the background. While you're not using it, so when you're trying to think of an idea, when you're trying really hard to come up with these breakthroughs, that's not likely to happen. It's when you're, you know, relaxed that it's all going to come through.
Lizzy: And so for me, it's been really helpful to have both the experience of, you know, pursuing it on my own, but also the The framework of experts. These are experts. These are hundreds of years of science and academic study that have built this understanding of how our brain works. And I think that's, I could go off on a tangent about this, but we discount emotions and don't think of them as rational or don't think of them as, um, factual.
Lizzy: Because they feel fleeting, but the reality is they are all based in chemistry. They're all based in the science of our brain. And when you think about it from that perspective, I think it shifts the view from being dismissive of it. And this is just a weakness. You're just not tough enough to understanding, like there are actually things happening in my body that are normal based on how I was developed, that are normal based on my triggers.
Lizzy: And then when you learn that you can then navigate it.
Lissa: So you, we've both gone to therapy. You do a lot of personal development work, working on those things that you're learning in therapy, outside of therapy. And you alluded to a comment that you heard about it being a crutch. What would you say for people who might try to therapize themselves?
Lissa: Like, buy all the resources, buy all the books. and reflect, do their own reflection, but not get professional one on one support, whether that's for saving money or whatever other reason.
Lizzy: I think that's fucking awesome. I think, go for it. I think that's amazing. Um, I have found value in having a therapist, but not always, as I've mentioned, and The first time I saw a therapist was because I was so overwhelmed by my emotions, um, navigating what became a divorce at the time, spoiler alert, um, that I just needed an objective third party.
Lizzy: Um, and so that was a specific need for me at the time and no book was going to tell me what to do. But if you don't need that, you don't need that. I still think that going through that journey of, of self reflection and not just, I did this today or not just writing down your dreams and setting goals, but understanding, Oh, this thing that happened to me that I thought was normal because it was normalized in my socialization and my experience.
Lizzy: That was actually traumatic and that's okay to acknowledge. And I don't have to shame the people involved or I don't have to hate anyone or I don't have to blame anyone, but I can also feel validated or, you know, similar things like that. How has that shift in perspective affected how you feel about your past?
Lissa: Well, similar to you, the, so the first time I ended up going to therapy consistently was because a situation had occurred. So interestingly. I didn't, it's not that something happened and then I went to therapy. What happened was my dad passed away 2010 and between 2010 and 2017 I would, I didn't go to therapy.
Lissa: I didn't actually understand that there was like a process for grieving. I just thought, Hey, all right, get back to regular life, go back to work and be sad once in a while, cry once in a while. And you know, that was, A mix of ignorance, but also just if I want to give myself some grace, just not knowing any better.
Lissa: Like I was young. Who taught you that? No one taught me. Who would have taught you? No one taught me that. Who would have known? And not to mention, I'm a, I'm a high functioning, uh, I've had high functioning depressed, depression before. Which means you can feel all those things, not feel motivated, be in kind of a dark place.
Lissa: But still get the job done, like still do what you're doing at work. And so I didn't know what was happening for years and years, but that lack of grieving strained a lot of relationships, friendships, people I've dated. There was a, it came to a head where I finally was like, let me go to therapy. And then in those first couple of months, I realized like what I really needed was to grieve.
Lissa: Something that happened, seven years prior. And so I forgot your initial question, but having to do with like my perspective on, on, ongoing is for me, I needed, I needed a professional perspective and someone to talk to. To make that connection for me. And I don't think any amount of books I would have read or podcasts I would have listened to would have led me there.
Lissa: So in that instance, I feel like I needed it. Right.
Lizzy: And since then, as you've kind of continued your journey on and off, um, with the therapist, have you learned things that make you, Look back differently on your childhood on your, you know, adolescence, your teens What are kind of some of the insights that you've gained or how has your perspective shifted?
Lissa: So a big one and so I'm a financial counselor. I talk a lot about money I studied the trauma of money and I help clients with a lot of the mindset related to money, but for my own experience like I've I've I've I've always considered myself a gift giver. It's one of the love languages, right? Like you give gifts.
Lissa: And so I just kind of always identified as a gift giver. I give a lot, you know, presents to friends on their birthdays. At Christmas, when I go travel out of the country, I'll buy souvenirs for as many people as I can. I bring a second suitcase when I travel just to, to bring them. Girl, I know. I get them.
Lissa: Right? So I always kind of just thought, hey, that's me. That's my personality. Right. In this last year, the more that I talked to my therapist, my last therapist about it, I came to realize where that came from for me. There actually obviously came from a childhood place. Really? I haven't heard this. Yeah. I don't think I've told you.
Lissa: So, you know, my mom, I guess both of my parents, but my mom, when I was a kid would kind of show love through buying things. We didn't come from a lot of money growing up. We were classified probably as lower lower class or like at the top end of the lower class. Um, and so if I did well in school, like straight A's, they'd give me like 20 bucks.
Lissa: So that's kind of like the earning mentality, but if I did well the entire school year, then at Christmas, you know, the following year we would get a new game system like a Nintendo or something. So there was a lot of things I associated with giving gifts is that that's how you show someone you care.
Lissa: That's um, shows that you've succeeded in some way. You're recognizing them. Yeah. And so now when I give gifts,
Lissa: Um, now I view it through a lens that I can still give gifts, that's totally fine if you have the means for it, like I'm not going to break my budget, I'm not going to go into debt trying to give gifts to people, but if I have the means to do it and I want to do it and I understand why I'm doing it. then it's okay.
Lissa: Like I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it for that reason. Whereas I feel like before I would just kind of do it blindly because like, Oh, that's me. That's my personality.
Lizzy: I love this example because I think so many people, uh, that I've met resist therapy or resist that kind of self analysis because they're like, I don't want to change or like you better accept me as who I am.
Lizzy: And going through this experience doesn't mean your personality changes, doesn't mean you have to change who you are, but it's. Giving you the framework to understand why you are how you are and being able to recognize why You are how you are gives you It gives you the ability to make an empowered choice and say, yes, I am choosing to continue to give gifts because that's important to me.
Lizzy: And it aligns with my values, not because I've been conditioned and socialized this way. And I don't even understand why I think it's important. But on top of that,
Lissa: I also come to the realization that that blindly, you know, blindly giving gifts to people as a part of my personality never took into consideration what that meant for the recipient, right?
Lissa: I don't know how many people in my life that I may have felt made uncomfortable. By giving something.
Lizzy: Sure. Right? Like, Right. Not everyone's comfortable receiving gifts. Not everyone's comfortable
Lissa: receiving gifts. Interesting. And I just always thought like, No, but you're giving, so it's a good thing. So, now that's another thing that I'm just cognizant about.
Lissa: Like, I'm, I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable because I give them a new, like, iPad. I'm just kidding. I'm not, I'm just kidding. I'm not like, I'm not handing out electronics like that. But like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable. So I, it goes through another lens, another filter before I actually make that decision now, which I don't think is a bad thing.
Lissa: Like, I think it's a good, I don't want to overstress myself on like, Oh, should I give someone this or that? But it helps me navigate the decisions a little bit more.
Lizzy: Right, right. Which I think is a, uh, an important factor and just kind of being intentional about your life. And not everyone has to operate that way, right?
Lizzy: Not everyone does. Not everyone has an interest in operating that way, but if you do, it is very empowering. And I think even amongst people who do want to be very intentional with their life choices and with their decisions, they don't always recognize. And I I've been in that situation. You don't always recognize the factors that are affecting you are affecting your reactions.
Lizzy: Unconsciously, um, especially in the heat of the moment when making a choice. And so being able to have a little bit of a distance between, you know, the, the trigger or the situation, and then your reaction in any case is always really powerful. And I think that analysis and kind of learning about yourself and for me, learning about myself has given me a little bit more of that.
Lissa: I want to circle back to the very beginning and talk a little bit about the financial costs. You, we said, what, 150 to 250 a session. What has been your experience in terms of like insurance covering it versus not?
Lizzy: Sure, yeah, I think that's, uh, really important to bring up because I believe I've always gone through insurance.
Lizzy: And one thing, if you're considering this right now, many insurance companies since COVID have actually completely waived co pays for insurance. Mental health services. So the past few years I haven't paid a dollar besides my normal insurance coverage I don't pay an additional copay for my therapy right now because they're starting to be this shift in recognizing the interconnection between mental health and physical health and Insurance companies are realizing that their cost of coverage.
Lizzy: Yeah is much lower if they can prevent people from getting sick. Um, so preventative medicine tends to be free, just like, you know, getting your teeth cleaned, or, you know, pap smear, that kind of thing. Um, and so I think they're starting to move mental health services into that category.
Lissa: All right. If you had to pay that much a session, would it alter how often you go?
Lizzy: It might. I think when I've been in crisis, um, I would pay it anyway. And I, I'm thinking, um, To a comparison of paying for physical therapy. So we shared a physical therapist Who was a private physical therapist did not accept insurance And you know, I paid him 150 a session or 200 a session. I don't know.
Lizzy: I had the homie rate. Yeah Shout out. And it was worthwhile for, you know, the period where I was healing. Um, and so I think if that were the case, I would approach it a little differently versus kind of the long term maintenance type of care. Um, but many insurance companies, interestingly, try to wean you off.
Lizzy: So I have Kaiser. Um, I was seeing a therapist for a very serious bout of depression and anxiety. Um, and That ultimately culminated in me getting diagnosed with ADHD, not either of those things. But for each session, they track your scores. Like, how well are you doing? What is your mental health like? And once I got diagnosed and got medicated, My scores like completely plummeted or whatever, the complete opposite, they were great, instantly great.
Lizzy: To the point where my provider basically said, I can't treat you anymore because your scores are too high. I don't have a medical justification to treat you. So they're not always in the interest of just taking your money forever and ever because that's a high cost to them. They want to move you towards being well and not needing these services.
Lizzy: What has your experience been?
Lissa: It's been all over the place. So I do think there's a couple of decisions that are made before the financial one even comes into play, right? You have to understand what therapy is and what it can do for you. You have to be motivated to want to go. You have to know what resources are, what are available to you and what paths you can take to get therapy.
Lissa: And then there's the decision of actually, you know, swiping your credit card, paying for it. So for me, I worked at Google for a big chunk of my life, which is known to have great employee benefits. And. I didn't, we had a benefit where you could have 25 free sessions with a counselor every year. I didn't utilize that until year 11, year 10, year 11 of being there because I didn't know about it.
Lissa: I didn't know that I needed it. Right. Even when I went, um, for the first time, I just did it through insurance. Like I found my own person and I didn't do it through that service. So I remember when I first started going before, It was treated like a copay through insurance. I think seeing a specialist. I had a PPO so I had a pretty good insurance policy.
Lissa: Um, so I still had to pay per session, but it was like 40, 50 bucks or something like that. Sure. Okay. My most recent time that I went to therapy, I was paying out of pocket. So it was like 150 a session, um, which I would say kind of affected how often I went. I chose to go like once a month or once every other week.
Lissa: And part of it was this last time that I was, um, um, Seeing a therapist, it wasn't for a particular reason, it was for like maintenance and growth, which I felt like honestly one of the best decisions I made in my life because a lot of times you're not going to go unless you're like, you've hit rock bottom.
Lissa: It's kind of like same thing with like finances, like you're not going to go see um, a debt specialist or credit specialist or a financial counselor until you're a rock bottom. A lot of times. A lot of people. Agreed. I think I was
Lizzy: going. to say that exact thing. I think most people find themselves in that situation out of desperation, right?
Lizzy: I have no other options. I am at such a low point, whether that's just situational depression or navigating mental illness. illness that comes to a head, um, a breakup, which has been my, my experience multiple times. I used to go for
Lissa: breakups all the time. Man.
Lizzy: All the time. And, and you're in crisis and you need help and that, however, whatever gets you there.
Lizzy: Right. But I also think speaking of the costs, it's really important to look at the cost of not going. And I have a interesting experience with that. Having, you know, gone through multiple breakups where I saw a therapist and, um, didn't actually deal with the underlying issues of Why I kept finding myself in these relationships, um, and, you know, they ended traumatically and it was easy to be like, it wasn't my fault.
Lizzy: So it was easy to analyze the other person's role in the relationship and not my own and my own responsibility for choosing this time and time and time again. Um, and, you know, now I'm at a point where that's exactly what I'm looking at and I'm trying to undo that. But the cost of, of not having healed that the first time around when I was, you know, 26 and got divorced in the same exact situation, I lost a lot of time.
Lizzy: Yeah. And, um, I lost, it's not a total loss. I wouldn't, you know, necessarily change my journey. But I might have made different choices or maybe gone through less heartbreak if I learned these things about myself earlier and if I fully embraced it. Um, and that's another interesting point of you can go to therapy and not be honest with yourself.
Speaker 11: Mm hmm.
Lizzy: Or you can go to therapy and still just dig on the surface. Uh, it has to be that really, really deep analysis and that kind of willingness to dive into the painful things that can ultimately give you the most growth, in my experience.
Lissa: Yeah, I, I think there's steps, right? I think setting that first appointment and then showing up to it.
Lissa: And then even if you don't want to talk about anything with your therapist because you're not ready and you grew up in a childhood where you were just told to man up and you like there could be so many things but you took that step that the next person didn't take, right? And so you have to give yourself that credit.
Lissa: Um, I don't think there's a timeline for anyone's journey. Like I used to. This is how I used to think. I was gonna expose myself, but like, I used to think like, okay, you know, in your twenties, you're gonna like, um, learn, you're gonna mess up a bunch, but you're gonna learn from it. In your thirties, you're gonna make smarter decisions and you're gonna be more self reflective.
Lissa: And then in your forties, fifties, whatever, right? No, that's not how it works. Because, because, you know, a 52 year old could be realizing for the first time, like, hey, I think I want to go to therapy and I want to uncover this last 52 years of my life where someone else, you know, someone in Gen Z has, It's more of a normalized conversation based on who they follow online, right?
Lissa: So I think the journey is yours. Like, yeah, when you decide to go to therapy, if you do, or when you decide to pick up a book or when you decide to do self reflection meditation, whatever it may be, it's like on your own time, you have to be ready for it. No one can force you.
Lizzy: Absolutely. Absolutely. You have to be ready.
Lizzy: And sometimes it takes those rock bottom situations or, or losing something, unfortunately. To get you in that mindset to say, you know, I need to make a change or I need to dig into this.
Lissa: Yeah.
Lizzy: A little bit further.
Lissa: All right. Time to close it out with 20 cents. So 20 cents is the segment of the show where both Lizzy and myself, Lissa each gets 60 seconds to give our two cents on today's topic, whether it is a net positive or a net negatives.
Lissa: Today we're looking at is therapy worth it? Where does 20 cents come from? Because you get the opinion of two dimes.
Lissa: All right, Liz, you have 60 seconds on the clock. Is therapy worth it?
Lizzy: Therapy is absolutely worth it. Therapy has changed my life. Therapy has saved my life. The ability to share your honest and vulnerable experiences in an environment without judgment, in a safe space, with someone who can give you objective feedback, especially if you have anxiety, your mind is going crazy, you overthink, someone to say, that's good, that's bad, you fucked up, you did right on that one.
Lizzy: is so helpful to navigate life, in addition to the ability to grow to understand yourself better, and then apply that to your future choices. So while I understand and completely respect why people are opposed to therapy, why it doesn't feel right for them, I Would absolutely support it. I think I would recommend it for any single person trying to get the most out of themselves in their life.
Lizzy: All
Lissa: right. You got two, you got it. You had one second to spare. So that is a net positive. What about you, Lissa P? So. This is understanding how much it costs, right? We said 150 to 250 a session. It could vary. I fully understand that it can be a financial burden for some people to go to therapy. And, That financial burden can cause even more stress and anxiety.
Lissa: The way I look at it is that that can become a cycle, right? Whether or not money is related to your trauma at all, or it's something else, a breakup or a death in the family. I do think that. not going when you are in times of crisis or not going when you suffer from mental health issues, stress, anxiety, depression, ADHD, or even if you can't pinpoint and name it.
Lissa: I think that if you can find the means, the financial means to go, that absolutely. It's worth it. Net positive. I also only had a second left. So everyone remember that this is what we think we both said net positive But that's what we think right now in this moment in time and can't nobody make that decision but yourself. Nobody but you baby.
Lissa: Nope. So what do you think is therapy worth it for you?
Lizzy: Hit us up Let us know what you think dm us on instagram at @NetNetpodcast or email us at hi@netnetpodcast.com We want to know and if you want to follow us individually
Lissa: You can find us at I'm at wealthforwomenofcolor on TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram
Lizzy: And i'm on Instagram and TikTok at live_well_Lizzy with underscores in between.
Lizzy: All right, hit us up. Let us know Is therapy worth it?
Lissa: All references, statistics, and resources mentioned can be found in our show notes. This podcast is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, and should not be constituted as financial advice. Remember to always do your own research, consult a professional as needed, and feel empowered to make your own damn decisions.